Kestrel and Horus together

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triggerpress

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I'm at SHOT and one of the coolest gadgets I've found is a Kestrel weather meter that incorporates a ballistic program (by HORUS), thus providing not only environmental data, but a continuously updated firing solution in MOA or mils to the shooter. I've got pics and data on SHOT SHOW report day 3 (last item) at www.coyoteschool.########.com

triggerpress
 
Wonderful 'GADGET' indeed.

Unfortuntely, until they offer a system to determine the average condition throughout the flight path THEN offer a firing solution to account for all the variables...

It will continue to be a nice gadget...

Jerry
 
Shooter ----/ said:
Interesting.

Anyone have any experience with the Horus Atrag software?
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Ask this question again in a couple of weeks, several of us here bought these while at SHOT.
They seem quite impressive. We spent an hour with the Horus tech fellow, real bright guy but has math and spelling confused as he keeps putting letters into his equations:eek:

This looks to be the gizmo of all ballistics calculator gizmos, now all I need is time to play with it to see.:D
 
Mystic Precision said:
Wonderful 'GADGET' indeed.

Unfortuntely, until they offer a system to determine the average condition throughout the flight path THEN offer a firing solution to account for all the variables...

It will continue to be a nice gadget...

Jerry
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Jerry I agree with most of what you said because of conditions constantly changing throughout the flight path at long ranges, I don't think any ballistics program can predict that. I do not consider a ballistics program a gadget however for obtaining data for bullet drop when firing at targets at unknown distances, however wind is totally different and the biggest variable in my opinion. I am not talking about target shooting but real world shooting where ballistic programs have shown to be a valuable asset, almost as valuable as a good spotter.;)
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Ask this question again in a couple of weeks, several of us here bought these while at SHOT.
They seem quite impressive. We spent an hour with the Horus tech fellow, real bright guy but has math and spelling confused as he keeps putting letters into his equations:eek:

This looks to be the gizmo of all ballistics calculator gizmos, now all I need is time to play with it to see.:D
Click to expand...



Phone in sick two days in a row.

Whats the boss gonna do? Fire ya? :p
 
Mystic Precision said:
Wonderful 'GADGET' indeed.

Unfortuntely, until they offer a system to determine the average condition throughout the flight path THEN offer a firing solution to account for all the variables...

It will continue to be a nice gadget...

Jerry
Click to expand...

I'm with Jerry,,,,

Nothing beats time spent with wind and mirage learning to read conditions between you and your target.

I tried the Horror Vision reticle, its just way to busy to be fast with it. If you have a time to sit and figure out which line you should be holding on, great. If you have to be fast and accurate, then learn with another reticle.
 
For the distances that shouldered fired rifles are shot, many of the variables which are computed in the ballistics program don't change the result much.

No where near what the variables due to wind can cause.

I'll take a good spotter any day. Someone who knows about reading mirage, vegetation and other visible wind cues. Someone who can account for the subtle corrections over a long flight path.

Someone that can determine WHAT THE DOMINANT CONDITION REALLY IS!!!!!!

Then someone who can accurately call up the right corrections once a shot has missed, if it missed of course.

About the only thing all these gadgets can do is get you within 1/2 min of ELEVATION on your scope to account for the RANGE. For the most part, with an accurate range finder AND a drop chart that has been tuned to the rifle, ammo and scope, you will be within that same drop anyways.

Play around with the ambient condition setting and see what the program changes.

Then try varying the G7 BC and/or the muzzle velocity by a little bit and see what happens.

Any idea what ambient conditions and bore fouling will do to both the BC and the velocity from shot to shot?

There is precious little this stuff can do to help you with the wind ESPECIALLY if shooting in mountainous terrain where there are bound to be ever changing winds.

For the distances where the info can be made spot on, not far enough to really matter.

And for distances where you need all this help, it can't.

But what it will do is get you in the ballpark (so will a proper drop chart), especially if you and your spotter have some good shooting skills.

Then a 3 sec adjustment and the telling shot is on its way......

Jerry
 
Love to do another LR shoot but the area continues to be too busy with traffic.

But that is the best and really, only way anyone is going to learn about LR shooting.

Get out there and burn powder.

Would be really cool if they ever come up with a way to read the air over the flight path but I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.

Jerry
 
Blackcloud said:
I'm with Jerry,,,,

Nothing beats time spent with wind and mirage learning to read conditions between you and your target.

I tried the Horror Vision reticle, its just way to busy to be fast with it. If you have a time to sit and figure out which line you should be holding on, great. If you have to be fast and accurate, then learn with another reticle.
Click to expand...

The Horus program has nothing to do with their "busy" reticle.
The program is calculated in MOA or MILs.
Essentially the same Kestrel you use now, but with a very good and adaptable ballistics program built in so no need for a PDA or phone.
The part I like is that you can have real time corrections every time you use the Kestrel without having to re-compute.
Being as you can "tweak" the trajectory to what your rifle actually shoots is a neat thing. The computer part tells you where to set up a target to confirm trajectory once 100 yard zero is established. Once you confirm at the distance suggested (based on your input of BC, velocity etc) you can then tweak the program to establish your true trajectory.

I agree wind will still not be solved and a good spotter is paramount, but the science seems to be improved with this system.
 
EC said:
Jerry I agree with most of what you said because of conditions constantly changing throughout the flight path at long ranges, I don't think any ballistics program can predict that. I do not consider a ballistics program a gadget however for obtaining data for bullet drop when firing at targets at unknown distances, however wind is totally different and the biggest variable in my opinion. I am not talking about target shooting but real world shooting where ballistic programs have shown to be a valuable asset, almost as valuable as a good spotter.;)
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Can you explain the difference in your interpitation of "target shootng " and "real World shooting"?
I don't understand, being a long range shooter, I figured any rounds put downrange were "real world shooting".....
Cat
 
kombayotch said:
I think he means applications where you don't get sighters, where a first round hit is a must.
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Ah, the ol' "cold bore shot"
1,000 yard bench is done the same way, with no spotter once the line is set up for score, and that can be REALLY hard to do, because you cannot access the wind mete/horus thingy either - there is just not enough time.
I do not know of many comnpetitions where a spotter is not used, but the Williamsport thousand yard type bench matches are one.
I think would still prefer a drop chart/range finder system and judging the current condition.
however, for drops and stff for different cartrisges it might be handy instead of packing around a bunch of hard copy.
Cat
 
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Not following...

Using a ballistics calculator doesn't preclude you from using a range finder, reading conditions or having a spotter. You still use all of those. It just gives you a drop chart that is based on current conditions instead of whatever was used at the time the "paper chart" was created.

I'm using Ballistic FTE on my iPhone at the moment. Nice tool, uses the JBM engine and has the ability to read temperature, humidity and pressure data off of the weather service website for continuous updates. And it's pretty quick to adjust range and wind settings in HUD mode. Still back the Kestrel and the Swarovski laser rangefinder and a spotter, when I can get one...
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
The Horus program has nothing to do with their "busy" reticle.
The program is calculated in MOA or MILs.
Essentially the same Kestrel you use now, but with a very good and adaptable ballistics program built in so no need for a PDA or phone.
The part I like is that you can have real time corrections every time you use the Kestrel without having to re-compute.
Being as you can "tweak" the trajectory to what your rifle actually shoots is a neat thing. The computer part tells you where to set up a target to confirm trajectory once 100 yard zero is established. Once you confirm at the distance suggested (based on your input of BC, velocity etc) you can then tweak the program to establish your true trajectory.

I agree wind will still not be solved and a good spotter is paramount, but the science seems to be improved with this system.
Click to expand...

I too have been impressed with the improvements ballistics programs have made over the last few years.

Being able to tweak the data is so critical as it rarely ever agrees with real world shooting.

I can only hope they are using the new G7 data and will update as more data is figured out.

Personally, I want at least 3 data points BEYOND my 100yd zero to even get close to confirming a drop chart. I am sure you know bullets can act weird beyond 600 and 700yds so tweaking all the way out beyond the transonic range is needed.

So all that has happened is that I can MANUALLY adjust a program to suit my real world data saving me the need to WRITE these changes on a piece of paper.

Sounds like KISS has been put aside for BLING????

Don't get me wrong, I love tech and anything that can actually help us engage targets way out there is a good thing.

I just don't see ballistics program devices as doing anything more then you would with paper and pen....Except maybe phoning home with the same device.

The kit necessary to give you some semblance of a firing solution is FAR more complex and expensive then anything civi's are going to play with.

Jerry
 
catnthehatt said:
Can you explain the difference in your interpitation of "target shootng " and "real World shooting"?
I don't understand, being a long range shooter, I figured any rounds put downrange were "real world shooting".....
Cat
Click to expand...

Targets don't shoot back, people do.
 
EC said:
Targets don't shoot back, people do.
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That is a situation in which i could care less, as I do not shoot rifles for killing things except targets and animals , both "real world" activities.

Your post seemed to insinuate that any body but snipers are not or do not shoot seriously.. that's why I asked.
Cat
 
catnthehatt said:
That is a situation in which i could care less, as I do not shoot rifles for killing things except targets and animals , both "real world" activities.

Your post seemed to insinuate that any body but snipers are not or do not shoot seriously.. that's why I asked.
Cat
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Thats fine, if you don't care less good for you. If you were offended, oh well. I know shooters who compete take it seriously, hunters take it seriously, real world activities in their own right, again targets and animals don't shoot back. I shoot as a part of my job, also compete and hunt as well. I take all of these seriously and would think no less of anyone who takes their disciplne seriousy. "Real World" activities mean different things to different people.
 
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