Kimber 8400 beside 84L

Quite a difference ardent. Thanks for the pics!

Ps I just unwrapped my first kimber, a new 84L 280AI. Wasn't aware that kimber switched to an aluminum trigger guard? This thing blows me away how trim it is. Pretty neat rifle.
 
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Ardent said:
Yea you'll be happy, all mine have been shooters too- just don't be too surprised if shots start to walk after a tight pair or three. Seems most of mine start to open up after two to three rounds, and that makes perfect sense with the weight of the barrel.
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Not directed at you Ardent, but at the overall nonsense that is posted about lightweight rifles daily here, and on other threads/sites.

I have owned, shot, carried, hunted with and worked on a pretty good pile of lightweight mountain rifles over the years. I keep hearing two things over and over, "they are extremely nasty for recoil and they walk all over once the barrel gets hot". I get sick of hearing that nonsense. One of the lightest contour barrels I own right now is the most accurate out of what sits in my safes for center fire rifles right now(lighter contour than anything Kimber puts out). The rifle I speak of is a pre 64 Winchester in .270 that was built for RickF by Bill Leeper. That barrel is a factory barrel from 1947 and turned down from there. I don't think I have seen anything slimmer posted anywhere, but yet it is still amazing how well it shoots. Why is it that this tiny little thin barrel shoots so well?

I have been able to get every lightweight rifle I have owned or worked on to shoot under and inch with three shots, and almost always been able to keep the fourth in that inch as well. These are purpose built hunting rifles, not for plinking off the bench. Need more than three or four shots to kill the intended game? Learn to shoot would be my answer to that... Find the recoil too much? Get a proper stock that fits and shoot more.

Lightweight rifles are not the big, nasty beast they are made out to be on the interweb.
 
Yet, even you admit that both can be true. ( "they are extremely nasty for recoil and they walk all over once the barrel gets hot". ) Just sayin, :cool:

crazy_davey said:
Not directed at you Ardent, but at the overall nonsense that is posted about lightweight rifles daily here, and on other threads/sites.

I have owned, shot, carried, hunted with and worked on a pretty good pile of lightweight mountain rifles over the years. I keep hearing two things over and over, "they are extremely nasty for recoil and they walk all over once the barrel gets hot". I get sick of hearing that nonsense. One of the lightest contour barrels I own right now is the most accurate out of what sits in my safes for center fire rifles right now(lighter contour than anything Kimber puts out). The rifle I speak of is a pre 64 Winchester in .270 that was built for RickF by Bill Leeper. That barrel is a factory barrel from 1947 and turned down from there. I don't think I have seen anything slimmer posted anywhere, but yet it is still amazing how well it shoots. Why is it that this tiny little thin barrel shoots so well?

I have been able to get every lightweight rifle I have owned or worked on to shoot under and inch with three shots, and almost always been able to keep the fourth in that inch as well. These are purpose built hunting rifles, not for plinking off the bench. Need more than three or four shots to kill the intended game? Learn to shoot would be my answer to that... Find the recoil too much? Get a proper stock that fits and shoot more.

Lightweight rifles are not the big, nasty beast they are made out to be on the interweb.
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Ps. Wherr does my 84M sit? In the middle? Or is it the same as the Montana on the Left?
Thanks for the pics, really rubs a little bit of salt in... altho i really do love the Montana! I dont want to imagine theAscent.

Is the Ascent called an 8400?

Cheers WL
 
WhelanLad said:
Ps. Wherr does my 84M sit? In the middle? Or is it the same as the Montana on the Left?
Thanks for the pics, really rubs a little bit of salt in... altho i really do love the Montana! I dont want to imagine theAscent.

Is the Ascent called an 8400?

Cheers WL
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The 84M and 84L are the slimmer action, like the Mtn Ascent in the pics. The L is for long action non magnum and the M for short action. Before the 84L came around, only the short action (84M) was slim, and all others were the 8400 like the Montana in the pic. Current 8400's are magnum.

Yours will look like the Mountain Ascent in the pics. There's really not much weight difference between a current Mtn Ascent and Montana, 5 oz. in the same calibers.
 
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crazy_davey said:
Not directed at you Ardent, but at the overall nonsense that is posted about lightweight rifles daily here, and on other threads/sites.

I have owned, shot, carried, hunted with and worked on a pretty good pile of lightweight mountain rifles over the years. I keep hearing two things over and over, "they are extremely nasty for recoil and they walk all over once the barrel gets hot". I get sick of hearing that nonsense. One of the lightest contour barrels I own right now is the most accurate out of what sits in my safes for center fire rifles right now(lighter contour than anything Kimber puts out). The rifle I speak of is a pre 64 Winchester in .270 that was built for RickF by Bill Leeper. That barrel is a factory barrel from 1947 and turned down from there. I don't think I have seen anything slimmer posted anywhere, but yet it is still amazing how well it shoots. Why is it that this tiny little thin barrel shoots so well?

I have been able to get every lightweight rifle I have owned or worked on to shoot under and inch with three shots, and almost always been able to keep the fourth in that inch as well. These are purpose built hunting rifles, not for plinking off the bench. Need more than three or four shots to kill the intended game? Learn to shoot would be my answer to that... Find the recoil too much? Get a proper stock that fits and shoot more.

Lightweight rifles are not the big, nasty beast they are made out to be on the interweb.
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Well said. I'm convinced that people don't shoot as much as they claim to.
 
A barrel that starts "walking" or wandering after it warms up is a stressed barrel and weight has nothing to do with barrel stressing. Let's face it, it just takes longer to heat up a heavier barrel. I believe (but cannot prove) that the more shooting one does the more it relieves barrel stressing, it makes perfect sense theoretically, same as hitting it with a hammer but from the inside.........I have turned a couple barrels down until I sand bagged the chamber regions before I'd fire them and they still shoot well, very well indeed. The one 300 WM Ruger 77 will still shoot 5 shots under 1" with 200 gn Parts and a full gut of IMR 7828. Not my rifle but it's what the customer wanted and he's very happy with it.
I must concur with Crazy Davey, light weight barrels do not necessarily wander when warm.........as far as beastly recoil.........who cares, my <6 lb 300 WSM mountain rifle doesn't even have a recoil pad.......
 
chuck nelson said:
Well said. I'm convinced that people don't shoot as much as they claim to.
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There is a lot of truth here as well. Most people don't shoot near enough to have a valued opinion. Myself included. I wish I could still shoot 10,000 rounds a year, but the last several years life got in the way. Most people don't have the time, resources, or strong enough interest to shoot more than 100 rounds per year from their rifles.

One benefit of a tbn barrel people seem to forget is although they heat up quicker, they also cool a lot quicker. Six of one, half dozen of the other in regards to heat or walking IMHO. The heavy barrels however ARE stiffer and I have found them easier to find a very accurate load for, though that could just be the extra weight helping with my lack of shooting skills.
 
What are those two rifles chambered in?
I saw a Kimber 8400 Montana in 270 WIN for sale on the EE, but couldn't determine if it used the same action as its successor the Montana 84L. I didn't really feel like taking the gamble and the seller wasn't sure of the exact weight.
 
Seems like some clarification is in order, lightweight rifles, and their associated ultralight barrels are by far my favourite pattern of a hunting rifle. Krieger, the world record holding barrel maker still last I checked, refuses to make very light contours as they feel it is impossible to make a very light contour barrel that will consistently deliver MOA or better. I had to buy a straight cylinder from them and then turn it down here in Canada to get what I wanted, for instance.

I have some exceptionally fine shooting Kimbers, my Adirondack .308 for instance, which I would confidently take to an MOA challenge shoot- for three rounds. It will still shoot very well by hunting rifle standards right up to five rounds, but the group is not going to be 3/4 MOA. For two rounds, I'm confident the rifle's capability is 1/2 MOA, however as the human driver I will not always deliver that. I also believe what Douglas and I believe another said here about shooting stress relieving barrels over time, engine blocks also experience the phenomena. None of my Kimbers are old enough to have experienced stress relief, will be interesting to see if any improvement is noted over time in hot barrel groups.

When discussing barrels walking as they warm up, my Kimbers typically put two rounds touching or close, a third that steps out slightly by 3/8 or 1/2" say but still well within accurate rifle specs, and fourth that opens that same amount again, and by five if you're shooting them one after another my Kimbers can tip over an 1", even kiss an 1 1/2" when hot to the touch, which doesn't take much shooting with a zero contour. Frankly I think that's fantastic performance. I'm talking long term averages not your single best group, any of the rifles will produce a sales forum cluster group given enough time between shots and one in three good fortune. And so what? I haven't had a bug hole Kimber since my SVT, and I love them just the same, but for that matter I own no other bug hole rifles either.

Out of the five Kimbers in the safe right now I've only shot four, the .338 Win (thank you Bartledan!) will only see a box of factory ammo for plain curiousity before getting a 30" .257 Weatherby barrel. I have high hopes for that rig once running, given Krieger barrels are supposedly stress free. Will be an interesting "control" against my other Kimbers too as I'm likely going to copy the Kimber barrel profile, as long as the 30" whip of a barrel doesn't screw it up slinging nigh on 4,000fps TTSXs.

The group at center of three is typical of my Kimbers, this is the Adirondack shot hastily off two stack rubbermaid containers from a computer chair, it's actually the very first group it shot, sighting in, it's an inch with the third stepped out from the initial tight pair. Still exceptional hunting rifle accuracy. The large group above was an off hand group for one of the forum "challenges", and I returned to fire a fifth shot at it hence the add on.


 
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Oy vey what is up with you guys and molesting .338's? First CFBMI and his gorgeous Sako, now Ardent and his Kimber.

I suggest if you are trying factory ammo you may appreciate the Sako .338 250 grain ammunition.

If the .257 doesn't scratch your itch I bet it would make a great .458 wm, keep it in the family and all. :evil:
 
conor_90 said:
Oy vey what is up with you guys and molesting .338's? First CFBMI and his gorgeous Sako, now Ardent and his Kimber.

I suggest if you are trying factory ammo you may appreciate the Sako .338 250 grain ammunition.

If the .257 doesn't scratch your itch I bet it would make a great .458 wm, keep it in the family and all. :evil:
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Its certainly nothing personal, but maybe its a hint to step up to a 375 ?
 
Ardent said:
Krieger, the world record holding barrel maker still last I checked, refuses to make very light contours as they feel it is impossible to make a very light contour barrel that will consistently deliver MOA or better. I had to buy a straight cylinder from them and then turn it down here in Canada to get what I wanted, for instance.
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How light of contour would you like? The SS contour issue has nothing to do with accuracy.

https://kriegerbarrels.com/contours#bolt
 
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