Kimber Adirondack load development

So here's some factory ammo, Federal fusion and Federal blue box, both 150 gn.



I tried a few different holds, some with my off hand on top of the scope, some with it under the fore stock, some not touching the fore stock and grabbing the rear bag. The hand on top of the scope is the steadiest by far, but doesn't help the groups any.
The trigger is very nice, probably somewhere around 3.5 - 4 lbs. I will adjust it down to 3 lbs or so. I think I will have to bed it as well. I really don't think it's me, as I had my Sako 30-06 out again today, and it's shooting 3\4 inch with no problem at all.
 
Biiiiiiig difference between shooting a 9lb sake and a 6 lb kimber when it comes to inertial mass and trigger pull and shooting form/technique.

Light rifles require a light trigger. 4lbs is WAY too heavy on a rifle that light.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Biiiiiiig difference between shooting a 9lb sake and a 6 lb kimber when it comes to inertial mass and trigger pull and shooting form/technique.

Light rifles require a light trigger. 4lbs is WAY too heavy on a rifle that light.
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I haven't adjusted my trigger on my mountain ascent, its 4lbs me thinks. I have no trouble shooting moa with it.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Light triggers make light rifles easier to shoot. Less pull is better, due to the less mass holding the rifle on target.
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I agree with you on a light trigger. My montana 7mm wsm trigger is set at 2.5 lbs. My MA trigger hasn't been adjusted yet, and I have no trouble getting moa with it. I believe the factory sets them at 4lbs.
 
257Roberts said:
Not one of the lighter Kimbers but picked up a 84L classic in 270 last week and can't wait to start load development.
It is a really nice rifle.
David
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Funny because what do they weigh, 6lbs 2oz according to Kimber? A Remington titanium with a light scope weighs the same as your 84L bare- pretty good for a pretty, walnut stocked rifle.
 
Riverboy said:


I tried a few different holds, some with my off hand on top of the scope, some with it under the fore stock, some not touching the fore stock and grabbing the rear bag. The hand on top of the scope is the steadiest by far, but doesn't help the groups any.
The trigger is very nice, probably somewhere around 3.5 - 4 lbs. I will adjust it down to 3 lbs or so. I think I will have to bed it as well. I really don't think it's me, as I had my Sako 30-06 out again today, and it's shooting 3\4 inch with no problem at all.
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Looks like it's shooting similar to my Adirondack with the Fusion, any chance you know the order of how the rounds hit paper? Mine puts the first two touching, or barely apart, and they start stepping out from there even if a few mins are taken to shoot the group. It looks to me like yours likely acts the same. This was politely questioned when I posted it in another thread, but my Mountain Ascent does the same, the Talkeetna does not but it's a heavier barrel. Like you I have other rifles to shoot beside it with heavier barrels that don't act the same. I don't consider this a flaw at all, with the weight of the barrel makes sense and I'll gladly accept two to three tight rounds before it walks for the shaved pounds.

This was my blurb on it, and if I'm guessing right yours is doing the same thing.

Angus

Ardent said:
Seems like some clarification is in order, lightweight rifles, and their associated ultralight barrels are by far my favourite pattern of a hunting rifle. Krieger, the world record holding barrel maker still last I checked, refuses to make very light contours as they feel it is impossible to make a very light contour barrel that will consistently deliver MOA or better. I had to buy a straight cylinder from them and then turn it down here in Canada to get what I wanted, for instance.

I have some exceptionally fine shooting Kimbers, my Adirondack .308 for instance, which I would confidently take to an MOA challenge shoot- for three rounds. It will still shoot very well by hunting rifle standards right up to five rounds, but the group is not going to be 3/4 MOA. For two rounds, I'm confident the rifle's capability is 1/2 MOA, however as the human driver I will not always deliver that. I also believe what Douglas and I believe another said here about shooting stress relieving barrels over time, engine blocks also experience the phenomena. None of my Kimbers are old enough to have experienced stress relief, will be interesting to see if any improvement is noted over time in hot barrel groups.

When discussing barrels walking as they warm up, my Kimbers typically put two rounds touching or close, a third that steps out slightly by 3/8 or 1/2" say but still well within accurate rifle specs, and fourth that opens that same amount again, and by five if you're shooting them one after another my Kimbers can tip over an 1", even kiss an 1 1/2" when hot to the touch, which doesn't take much shooting with a zero contour. Frankly I think that's fantastic performance. I'm talking long term averages not your single best group, any of the rifles will produce a sales forum cluster group given enough time between shots and one in three good fortune. And so what? I haven't had a bug hole Kimber since my SVT, and I love them just the same, but for that matter I own no other bug hole rifles either.

Out of the five Kimbers in the safe right now I've only shot four, the .338 Win (thank you Bartledan!) will only see a box of factory ammo for plain curiousity before getting a 30" .257 Weatherby barrel. I have high hopes for that rig once running, given Krieger barrels are supposedly stress free. Will be an interesting "control" against my other Kimbers too as I'm likely going to copy the Kimber barrel profile, as long as the 30" whip of a barrel doesn't screw it up slinging nigh on 4,000fps TTSXs.

The group at center of three is typical of my Kimbers, this is the Adirondack shot hastily off two stack rubbermaid containers from a computer chair, it's actually the very first group it shot, sighting in, it's an inch with the third stepped out from the initial tight pair. Still exceptional hunting rifle accuracy. The large group above was an off hand group for one of the forum "challenges", and I returned to fire a fifth shot at it hence the add on.


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Ardent said:
I posted this once recently and many disagreed, but my Adirondack definitely walks as it gets warm. The first two rounds touch or close, the next steps out, just the nature of a barrel that light and fine by me.
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It wasn't that we were disagreeing with you Angus, but you seem to want to argue it more. My point was that sometimes certain things get posted about lightweight rifles, they get stated as fact. So, I will say it again...

Not every skinny barreled, light weight rifle walks when it warms up. Some do for sure, but not all(lots to factor in there as well). I am not arguing with you that your .308 Kimber is walking as it warms up, some do for sure. I have owned some that do and some that don't. Like I stated earlier, one of the lightest contoured barrels I have ever owned(lighter than anything Kimber puts out) is a shooter and doesn't walk when warmed up, within reason of course. I will say that again, within reason... I wont push that barrel over five shots, no need to.

KodiakHntr said:
And all of mine had a learning curve as to hold. Snug into shoulder, weak side hand on fore stock.
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I personally believe that Kodiakhntr has it right in the above statement. I have owned many lightweight rifles and all of them took some time to learn how they needed to be held to shoot their very best. I was schooled once by my neighbor when I handed him a new Kimber that I wasn't happy with how it was shooting, he pulled off a serious group with a rifle I couldn't get to shoot under 1.5" with three shots. He did it three times in a row. By the end of that range session I was shooting five shot groups under and inch at 100. Say what you want, I learned something with that rifle that day.

It has been proven over at 24Hcampfire many times on lightweight rifle threads, sometimes its not the rifle or the barrel, just the shooter. I personally believe that Kimber has had some very bad internet press over the years because of something so very simple. But that is just my personal opinion.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Light triggers make light rifles easier to shoot. Less pull is better, due to the less mass holding the rifle on target.
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For myself, this makes a huge difference in how I shoot lightweight rifles. All of my currents in the safe are sitting at 2.5#'s, and yes, it seriously helps.

I was very happy with how my .223 Kimber Montana was shooting since I got it, had been with me every day for the past four or so months. Last night I put on a new scope and turned the trigger down to 2.5#'s. I put 60 rounds through it while sipping my Sunday morning coffee shooting the gongs out to 300 yards. All I can say is that rifle will never leave until I am dead. Coyotes were in trouble before, they better run faster now.
 
Ardent said:
Looks like it's shooting similar to my Adirondack with the Fusion, any chance you know the order of how the rounds hit paper? Mine puts the first two touching, or barely apart, and they start stepping out from there even if a few mins are taken to shoot the group.
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Angus, are you reloading for any of your current Kimbers? Not that it will make any difference in the conversation, just curious is all. I understand your time away from home might not allow for it and that I understand.
 
pete dobinson said:
Enjoy your new rifle David. Those wood stocked 84L's are beautiful looking rifle's. Lets us know how it shoots. Cheers Pete.
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Thanks Pete,
It is a nice Rifle, Looking at scope mounts right now, I want to have weaver style bases and have found that Warne makes bases for the 84 action. Not really interested in Talley's as I want a removable set of rings.

Ardent, you are right Just checked the weight, it is 6lbs. 1oz on my scale. and I said it is heavy. The bare rifle weighs less than my Model 94 in 44mag. so it is not heavy at all.

David
 
crazy_davey said:
Angus, are you reloading for any of your current Kimbers? Not that it will make any difference in the conversation, just curious is all. I understand your time away from home might not allow for it and that I understand.
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You're sadly correct in your guess there, everything has been factory for me for a long time, except the recently acquired .280 AIs by necessity. I have a portable reloading kit and a hand press I used to use in camp a lot, but brought it home with a lack of foresight, given I fly commercially to work wasn't a smart move. Becoming very fond of .308s, .270s, .300 Win, and remaining from of .375 H&H as I can get those locally off the shelf at my destinations before going to the bush. Gets pricey and you end up shooting $40 a box priced Fed Fusion, but I'm rambling...
 
Ardent said:
Looks like it's shooting similar to my Adirondack with the Fusion, any chance you know the order of how the rounds hit paper? Mine puts the first two touching, or barely apart, and they start stepping out from there even if a few mins are taken to shoot the group. It looks to me like yours likely acts the same. This was politely questioned when I posted it in another thread, but my Mountain Ascent does the same, the Talkeetna does not but it's a heavier barrel. Like you I have other rifles to shoot beside it with heavier barrels that don't act the same. I don't consider this a flaw at all, with the weight of the barrel makes sense and I'll gladly accept two to three tight rounds before it walks for the shaved pounds.

This was my blurb on it, and if I'm guessing right yours is doing the same thing.

Angus
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A few times the first two were touching, but most times they were not. I didn't keep an accurate record, that's just what I recall.
 
So I have bedded the front of the action, from the magazine well forward to about 1 inch in front of the recoil lug. I also had to move the trigger guard a bit forward, and open up the rear pillar, as it was binding on the action screw. I bedded the trigger guard in place, just because I was doing it. I will buy another box of federal fusion to test with, and load up some hornady flat base interlocks over h4895 to try out. Won't have a chance to shoot until the weekend.
 
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