Kimber Rifles

I've built, or rather have had built, several lightweight custom rifles over the past 12-13 years. If I was starting over, I'd just buy a Montana, or perhaps a LSS MR M700 and drop it into a Ti takeoff stock.

$450+ for an action, $700 to have it trued and a top barrel installed, and at least $600 for a good stock. Whether you start with a used action is really meaningless, it will soon be "used" anyway. To do a custom up right, you're looking at real close to 2G.

That will be built exactly to your specs of course. But you know what? Unless you have the luxury of handling several all-out customs like you want, the first custom rifle you have built won't be perfect either! Trust me, been there.

I've got a great 280AI sheep rifle in the safe, and I think it's better than a Montana. Trued action, Gaillard barrel, you name it. If I was doing it today, I'd get a new LSS MR M700 in the newly introduced 280 caliber, maybe have it reamed out to the Ackley chamber, and drop it into a McMillan compact Edge stock. It would be essentially the same rifle for a lot less money.

But if you get a Montana that is put together correctly, if it fits you and it shoots well, you're money ahead. No two ways about it.
 
Often people order a stock for their custom rifle that they never have laid hands on before. They just heard how great they were and ordered it.

Fitting may be complicated if you had it imported to the smith. Hardly custom unless you send it back and tell him how much to take off or add.

However, wiht the price tag for both of them well over a grand, I often wonder if a guy shouldn't just spend another $400-$500 and get a custom rifle, built to his exact specs.
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The answer could be as simple as not being able to afford the extra $500 and still get a decent scope for your rifle if a scope at all.

I know I won't spend $1800 on a rifle and then put a Blurris on it.:D
 
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The Sako/Kimber vs custom is valid unless like me, you buy just about all of them used for a little more than the cost of a new remington 700. Of all the Sako's and the kimber I have purchsed over the last few years only one cost me over $1,000, usually including mounts. All the Sako's were easily MOA rifles from the 223 A1 to the 300 Win mag AV, two were older models and three were 75's. The Kimber was just under that price in like new condition.

I spend quite a bit of time thinking custom and I always come back to the fact I like to hunt and shoot different rifles...me thinks my attention span is to short for custom guns.
 
martinbns said:
The Sako/Kimber vs custom is valid unless like me, you buy just about all of them used for a little more than the cost of a new remington 700. Of all the Sako's and the kimber I have purchsed over the last few years only one cost me over $1,000, usually including mounts. All the Sako's were easily MOA rifles from the 223 A1 to the 300 Win mag AV, two were older models and three were 75's. The Kimber was just under that price in like new condition.

I spend quite a bit of time thinking custom and I always come back to the fact I like to hunt and shoot different rifles...me thinks my attention span is to short for custom guns.
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I suppose if you do it that way, it makes sense to not go custom!!:p

Me, I am the opposite. Occasionally I buy a gun on a whim, or if I get a good deal, but rarely do I drop over $1000 on a firearm that I havent' thouroghly decided I want.

I see quite a few guys buy a rifle, then it's not quite what they want. So they sell it and buy another which they think will be better- But it's still not quite what they want so...:popCorn:

IN the end, they should have just decided what they want, and have it built for them, they would have been ahead financially, and got what they relaly wanted in the first place.

Same with optics, really.

But if a guy is afflicted wiht the trading disease, he is going to be bankrupt pretty soon if he keeps commisioning customs and trading them off!:p
 
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IN the end, they should have just decided what they want, and have it built for them, they would have been ahead financially, and got what they relaly wanted in the first place.
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It's not always that simple. Again cost comes into the factor. In the end it may have cost someone a ton to arrive with what they really wanted all along. Can one just drop all that money at once and just get it is the question? There are many who cannot. Patiently they get there though.
 
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boonerbuck said:
It's not always that simple. Again cost comes into the factor. In the end it may have cost someone a ton to arrive with what they really wanted all along. Can one just drop all that money at once and just get it is the question? There are many who cannot. Patiently they get there though.
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Therein lies the beauty of the today's Canadian gunsmith.... you have 3-6+ months to save your money AFTER he gets the go ahead to build you one.

I know of one highly regarded Canadian smith that will get you your rifle back within one year (if you're lucky...one buddy of mine had a rifle there 2 years):eek:
 
boonerbuck said:
Yes, you would have to shop around for some used parts though.

What I say here applies to the rifle I purchased.

All things equal, you'd be hard pressed to build a quality rifle as light as the Montana for the same price. Trigger would have to be upgraded. Ultra light stock like a Wild Cat would have to be found (Montana stock is under a pound). On a Remmy you would probably have to flute to shed weight unless you bought a Ti(not cheap). That all adds up before you even send it all to the smith. New parts, not even close. New rifle or custom action, new fluted barrel, new ultra light stock, trigger upgrade or work, labour etc...

I know 280Ackley said a couple of months back that I could build a Remmy or M70 for just about the same or close. What he listed was a bunch of used parts and a new custom barrel. Used rifle action, used take off stock. Basically that's just a used rifle with a fancy barrel. Apples and oranges.

The action on the Kimber 8400 WSM is as close to custom as it gets. It was built with exact specs to the WSM line. Not the standardized to fit all short action rounds.

Really, you get your money's worth for $1300 unless you are looking for something completely different.

Clarke is realistic in saying it would cost $400-500 unless building one the way you like it is a down grade to the Kimber Montana...but again that's apples and oranges.
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I'll argue the following points:

1. A Rem 700 or Mod 70 trigger tuned by a competent smith (usually free/VERY cheap with a chambering job) is as fine as you could EVER ask on a hunting/varmint rifle... you'll never notice the difference on paper.

2. I'd beg to differ on the used parts arguement... most rifles are factory tested and are used before you get them. Once an action is trued up it BETTER than new.

3. I've heard horror stories of the Kimbers and WSM calibers not feeding, as well as numberous other QC issues including one that would barely hit the paper (that one a rifle in Canada). Don't expect each one you grab to be "the one"...they're still factory churned out.

Definately is Apples to Oranges... as a custom gives you EXACTLY what you want, not what you are forced to think you want due to availibility (ie: lack of bottom metal).

When your custom doesn't shoot bugholes...expect a smith to stand behind his work.

I have nothing against factory rifles for well under $1000, but after they exceed the $1000 mark they better be something VEEEERRRRRRY special, as there are too many benefits to having one twisted up "just so"!

280_ACKLEY
 
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I sure wouldn't suggest ot a guy that is a newbie wiht guns to pick up the phone and order a custom! That is liek asking a 16 yrold kid wiht a new DL to design a car:p

However, most people start to figure out what they like after not too long- if it is important to them and they put thier mind to it.

If Kimber chambered the 375 Ruger, i woudl look VERY hard at it. But, like all facotry rifles, it may require a bit of tuning for perfect reliabilty and accuracy, and I woudl be pissed off if I had to dump a fair amount of $$$ into an already expensive gun, when i could have just got one built to my specs...

:bangHead:
 
Gatehouse said:
I suppose if you do it that way, it makes sense to not go custom!!:p

Me, I am the opposite. Occasionally I buy a gun on a whim, or if I get a good deal, but rarely do I drop over $1000 on a firearm that I havent' thouroghly decided I want.

I see quite a few guys buy a rifle, then it's not quite what they want. So they sell it and buy another which they think will be better- But it's still not quite what they want so...:popCorn:

IN the end, they should have just decided what they want, and have it built for them, they would have been ahead financially, and got what they relaly wanted in the first place.

Same with optics, really.

But if a guy is afflicted wiht the trading disease, he is going to be bankrupt pretty soon if he keeps commisioning customs and trading them off!:p
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Gate,
You make a good point I like owning nice rifles, it doesn't hurt me too bad to buy one, shoot it for a year, and then sell it later. The most I've ever lost on a gun was $300 and that was my fault. I grossly overpayed, didn't really like it when i got it. The nice thing is that over a period of time without getting creamed too bad I have accumulated a group of very nice guns that I like owning. The ones that don't shoot or feed as well as they should are gone, the ones that don't fit me really well are also gone, I have long arms, a long neck and a big head, monte carlo stocks are right for me. I live in fort McMurray, a long haul from anywhere I can get properly fit for a rifle stock, so I have learned what I like by a process of elimination. I also have learned who sells guns that really shoot, mostly here. So I'm not sure one custom gun is right for me when I have to spend at least $2500 to get one.
 
martinbns said:
Gate,
You make a good point I like owning nice rifles, it doesn't hurt me too bad to buy one, shoot it for a year, and then sell it later. The most I've ever lost on a gun was $300 and that was my fault. I grossly overpayed, didn't really like it when i got it. The nice thing is that over a period of time without getting creamed too bad I have accumulated a group of very nice guns that I like owning. The ones that don't shoot or feed as well as they should are gone, the ones that don't fit me really well are also gone, I have long arms, a long neck and a big head, monte carlo stocks are right for me. I live in fort McMurray, a long haul from anywhere I can get properly fit for a rifle stock, so I have learned what I like by a process of elimination. I also have learned who sells guns that really shoot, mostly here. So I'm not sure one custom gun is right for me when I have to spend at least $2500 to get one.
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Martin, you don't have to tell me you have long arms!:) That 30-06 I bought from you for my freind Jake is a perfect example! I shot it while working up a load (very easy, that Winchester was accuarte)...But I said to little Jake (He is about 5'9") YOU GOTTA GET THE STOCK TRIMMED!

He likes it though, and hasn't doen so...:)

There is no "bad" approach to owning guns, however, IMHO, there is a more effcient way to do anything...But it depends on the person.

I can't get "fitted" for a rifle here, eiher, but I am one of the lucky guys in that a 'standard' lenght stock has always worked for me. However, a good gunsmith can usually figure out what you need over the telephone. For instance, Bill Leeper said "You are tall, rigth?" I said, no- 6ft- but beefy.

He wondered if I needed a 'standard' butt chopped down a half inch or so, because of my large shoulder/chest. I said no, standard stocks fit me well, shorter stocks do not and longer stocks are too long. "Standard" LOP it was!;)

I figured out what I want in a big game rifle long ago. I prefer to be a 'one or 2 gun" hunter- for big game. My criteria for other rifles is not as stringent...

I like to take a long time, and then decide what I will get, then keep it for a long time. Others prefer the opposite.

Whatever floats your boat!:D
 
I've owned more than a few sakos, but have only fired one Kimber.
I liked it, mind you, but that is not hard for me to do.
As far as getting a custom built, I tend to put more thought into a custom target rifle than I would into a hunting rifle for the mere fact that I can like most hunting rifles.
A target rifle must have no compramise in the fit and accuracy departments!
Cat
 
catnthehatt said:
IA target rifle must have no compramise in the fit and accuracy departments!
Cat
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And I am a "no compromise" guy with a hunting rifle..Sure I will shoot the hunitng rifles out to 500 or more yards, but I am not a target competitor.

I want perfect RELIABILITY first, and accuracy second. But I want Accuraccy too- No point in a rifle that goes bang everytime if it sprays bullets all over..

You *can* have both, of course!;)
 
I think you misunderstood me GH!
I meant that i could likely go with any amount of different makes of hunting rifle
and even action types, although I am a single shot looney.
But whether or not it is a CRF, a 700, etc, does not really matter to me, nor does the caliber matter nearly as much as it would in a target rifle.
Stainless versus CM, syn. versus wood, etc, are not really that big a deal for me as I don't live in a super wet climate.
I can live with a zillion different calibers and be comfortable with any of them for both moose and deer.
however, my caliber preference especially is more important in a dedicated target rifle, depending on the dicipline, as is stock fit.
I can get along with a rifle that is a tad long in a hunting rifle, for instance, but
not in a match rifle ( of course , I would be shortening the stock eventually anyway!)....
Cat
 
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280_ACKLEY said:
I'll argue the following points:

1. A Rem 700 or Mod 70 trigger tuned by a competent smith (usually free/VERY cheap with a chambering job) is as fine as you could EVER ask on a hunting/varmint rifle... you'll never notice the difference on paper.

2. I'd beg to differ on the used parts arguement... most rifles are factory tested and are used before you get them. Once an action is trued up it BETTER than new.

3. I've heard horror stories of the Kimbers and WSM calibers not feeding, as well as numberous other QC issues including one that would barely hit the paper (that one a rifle in Canada). Don't expect each one you grab to be "the one"...they're still factory churned out.

Definately is Apples to Oranges... as a custom gives you EXACTLY what you want, not what you are forced to think you want due to availibility (ie: lack of bottom metal).

When your custom doesn't shoot bugholes...expect a smith to stand behind his work.

I have nothing against factory rifles for well under $1000, but after they exceed the $1000 mark they better be something VEEEERRRRRRY special, as there are too many benefits to having one twisted up "just so"!

280_ACKLEY
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To sum up how I feel about custom is if I'm going to spend, wait, and go through the process of sending it back to get rid of the quirks, I'm not looking to do it on the cheap. I'll go all out like I plan to in the future and make one hell of a custom.

I'm not looking to build a rifle from take offs when I can just go buy one already assembled. When I shoot that mule deer at 300 yards in the alpine I doubt he or anybody else will notice if the rifle shot one hole or a clover leaf at the range. If it needs to be tuned then so be it. When a make of rifle has an outstanding reputation for accuracy, the crappy ones are few and far between.

It's not cheap to build a 5.25 lb quality custom rifle. I don't care what kind of used take off parts you may happen to come across. That in it's self adds time to the whole process.

I'm not going to sit here and compare a Montana to a $2000 custom job by a well known maker. I'd love to see what kind of 5 lb custom rifles are coming out of the shops at $1300 though.
 
id like to see a 5lb custom for $2000 and compare it to a kimber
I could have bought 6 kimbers for the price of my custom minus my scope
 
catnthehatt said:
I think you misunderstood me GH!
I meant that i could likely go with any amount of different makes of hunting rifle
and even action types, although I am a single shot looney.
But whether or not it is a CRF, a 700, etc, does not really matter to me, nor does the caliber matter nearly as much as it would in a target rifle.
Stainless versus CM, syn. versus wood, etc, are not really that big a deal for me as I don't live in a super wet climate.
I can live with a zillion different calibers and be comfortable with any of them for both moose and deer.
however, my caliber preference especially is more important in a dedicated target rifle, depending on the dicipline, as is stock fit.
I can get along with a rifle that is a tad long in a hunting rifle, for instance, but
not in a match rifle ( of course , I would be shortening the stock eventually anyway!)....
Cat
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DOH!! I get it...:) Yeah, we like to blah blah blah about cartridges, but in truth most of them will work fine for most hunting. :bangHead:
 
Gatehouse said:
DOH!! I get it...:) Yeah, we like to blah blah blah about cartridges, but in truth most of them will work fine for most hunting. :bangHead:
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:D :D :D
I do have my preferences, as do we all!
And yup. most of us like to yak about guns and cartridge combinations!
That woiuldn't stop me from hunting with a rifle/cartridge that that wasn't my favorite however.
Same as match rifles, except that thew caliber more than the case matters for me........
Cat
 
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