Krieger vs Broughton

Jefferson said:
the 2 barrel makers do not really alike it if a company carries both, they may or may not be candid with you but the shipping times may slowwwwwwwww

hint hint this I know from a couple of USA dealers,

and yes robertson composites INC. is closed, bankruptcy is pretty much done, a husband and wife shooter bought the assets, it will be up and running by spring, not sure on the location yet, or even if it will be left in Canada,

Jefferson
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You'd think they'd do the opposite and try make their competition look bad by shipping as fast as possible.
 
Barrel waits can vary alot given the barrel specs and if you want a blank or prefit.

Each barrel maker produces their product in runs. If you can catch production at the right time, your barrel is produced alot quicker then expected. I have had Shilen blanks under 1 month including shipping and customs which eats up a couple of weeks on their own.

Then there are times when things do drag out. competing with govt contracts and larger factory purchases will lengthen production time.

Overly long barrels tend to drag production time for sure.

Unfortunately, it is very hard to merge production and the specific needs of each shooter. I have been carrying a few "common" barrels but even with pretty generic specs, enquiries always seem to be just a bit different and a stand alone order is made.

Look at the various contours, twists, rifling, lengths and steel available. you could inventory 400 different barrels and still not have the right one.

At around $300 to 350 a pop, that's a whole lot of money tied up.

Jerry
 
would it really hurt cdn barrel makers to get a web site? hire more workers and sell more? if you need to wait 6 to 9 months to get it done.....you need more staff
 
Jamie said:
would it really hurt cdn barrel makers to get a web site? hire more workers and sell more? if you need to wait 6 to 9 months to get it done.....you need more staff
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I don't get it either, if you're in business and there's a demand FILL IT!! Capital invested in machinery should be running 24/7 otherwise it's just depreciating, get it making money and fill the demand. 6-9 Months for a barrel is stupid, it's bad business.
 
Slinger and Jamie, NOT that simple.

The money that is required to invest in machines is a lot. Then there is the quality aspect. You actually think the quality would be as good or better than there 1 man shows?

I have heard of those issues with the Big co's out the US. A lapper quits and then what? You replace him but it takes time to get the feel and no how........

The wait is the wait. Anyone that is getting into this game knows there is a wait. Then there are some that know where they can get barrels in short order........... How do you find out? You must compete in the circles be it Benchrest or F-Class.... I am not about to tell every Tom, #### or Harry where they can get barrels in short order. Pay the piper like I did.

That is the end of my story.

CYCBB486
 
ok but at $350+ per barrel.....would not take long to pay off a new machine,hell I bet those fancy dancey Match barrels are made on machines older then most of us
 
cycbb486 said:
The money that is required to invest in machines is a lot.
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All the more reason to have them working non stop.

Like any industry there's risk, but then there's reward too, and I imagine the upside is pretty good if there's a 6-9 month demand for product. Sorry the wait is ridiculous and just asking for competition to step into the void and deliver what the market demands.
 
Its a 6 of one half dozen of the other situation.

I ordered and waited on my shilen about 2 months and just about pulled my hair out and thought it was crazy to take that long.

Ive also visited Mr. MacLennan in person in his own shop, got to chit chat with him and take his advice. Rob is a one man show makes your barrel start to finish and takes what seams like for ever but his barrels SHOOT! And if for some reason theres a problem, you take it back up and its fixed.

So it all comes down to do you want your barrel yesterday? Then get one pumped out off a lathe that never stops.

Want the best barrel your money will buy? Take it to the old boy you can chat with and he'll work away at your barrel on rainy days and after supper and when its done he'll call.
 
Gunslinger said:
I don't get it either, if you're in business and there's a demand FILL IT!! Capital invested in machinery should be running 24/7 otherwise it's just depreciating, get it making money and fill the demand. 6-9 Months for a barrel is stupid, it's bad business.
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Had a very nice chat with the boss at Shilen. They doubled their Savage prefit production soon after I came online as a dealer. The goal, drop the wait time.

Instead, demand continued to surge and wait times stayed the same but volume went up ALOT.

Then they had staff leave. WOW, what a gong show that was. Unfortunately, some who experienced abnormally long waits were victim of this time. No fun at all....

Yes, when a skilled barrel tech moves, it is an insane job to replace them. So much is approaching art that hands on feel and skill are paramount.

They know they have demand to double production again. They just can't get enough staff to get the work done well.

I know other manfs have tried to find workers that WANT to learn a craft. And not get paid like a trades worker. Turnaround and training AND motivation are such that they hit a wall and production just doesn't keep growing.

Again, of the big boys I have chatted with over the last couple of years, production at ALL of them has increased and increased by quite a lot. One well named company jokingly remarked that they doubled production and now can offer LESS product to the general public.

Reason - Uncle Sam came a knocking and that is one call you don't leave waiting. SO all their added capacity dried up in a few short phone calls. Don't think they were particularly stressed about getting that contract though.

And so the story goes.

It is a massive void in the market place. Think of not just domestic but GLOBAL sales IF you can tool up and make barrels to the same level as the pier group.

And besides the tooling, how much will your initial investment in steel be?

Again, from some of these very big suppliers, they pull their hair out sometimes and they have the budget to buy in bulk. One manf had to retool their rifling process cause the steel was just OFF enough to require new tooling.

Did the steel manf compensate them? Not in your life.

How good is your machining, metalurgy, and bank account doing?

Can it be done? Yes, kind of, maybe.

All the top Can barrel makers are getting on in years and might have retirement on their mind. How about dropping by with a couple of large double doubles and see if they want an apprentice to succeed them.

An apprentice that will GIVE them a nice paycheck for their knowledge then buy them out with a decent business profit.

For anyone serious to get into this game, that will be the best money you can invest in this product.

Sooooo.... any takers?

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Had a very nice chat with the boss at Shilen. They doubled their Savage prefit production soon after I came online as a dealer. The goal, drop the wait time.

Instead, demand continued to surge and wait times stayed the same but volume went up ALOT.

Then they had staff leave. WOW, what a gong show that was. Unfortunately, some who experienced abnormally long waits were victim of this time. No fun at all....

Yes, when a skilled barrel tech moves, it is an insane job to replace them. So much is approaching art that hands on feel and skill are paramount.

They know they have demand to double production again. They just can't get enough staff to get the work done well.

I know other manfs have tried to find workers that WANT to learn a craft. And not get paid like a trades worker. Turnaround and training AND motivation are such that they hit a wall and production just doesn't keep growing.

Again, of the big boys I have chatted with over the last couple of years, production at ALL of them has increased and increased by quite a lot. One well named company jokingly remarked that they doubled production and now can offer LESS product to the general public.

Reason - Uncle Sam came a knocking and that is one call you don't leave waiting. SO all their added capacity dried up in a few short phone calls. Don't think they were particularly stressed about getting that contract though.

And so the story goes.

It is a massive void in the market place. Think of not just domestic but GLOBAL sales IF you can tool up and make barrels to the same level as the pier group.

And besides the tooling, how much will your initial investment in steel be?

Again, from some of these very big suppliers, they pull their hair out sometimes and they have the budget to buy in bulk. One manf had to retool their rifling process cause the steel was just OFF enough to require new tooling.

Did the steel manf compensate them? Not in your life.

How good is your machining, metalurgy, and bank account doing?

Can it be done? Yes, kind of, maybe.

All the top Can barrel makers are getting on in years and might have retirement on their mind. How about dropping by with a couple of large double doubles and see if they want an apprentice to succeed them.

An apprentice that will GIVE them a nice paycheck for their knowledge then buy them out with a decent business profit.

For anyone serious to get into this game, that will be the best money you can invest in this product.

Sooooo.... any takers?

Jerry
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You know Jerry you are absolutely right they are all getting older ,the thought of making my own barrels was very interessting to me about 10 years ago.

One day I decided to build some machines to make barrels and built some of the parts ,gathered good bearings for the gundrill hydraulic pump motors you name it this was ten years ago.

Then the family started to grow and you know things change.

A few weeks ago I took everything back out and started putting things together ,there is still a fair amount of work left to do but the deep hole drilling machine is coming along very good.

I have some barrel steel ordered that should be here in a few days and am anxious to give the drill a try, I should be ready to drill in a few weeks if everything goes good.
 
Jerry, you hit the nail on the head with your post #34.....

I have shot with and Bs'd with Ted. He is a GREAT guy when you get to know him. Anyone wanting to get into the business and see what it is all about? I am pretty sure if you were serious about it you could drive down and make him an offer on his equipment. Then you can see what it is all about.

Rob McClennen got Ted into the making business from what I gather. The other thing I have heard is they talk almost daily or if either is having an issue with something they talk about it trying to figure it out. They even have a great bunch of resources in the US that they can call on. Not something the average Joe barrel maker would have access to. They have some of the top builders and machinists in there back pockets when needing info.

That alone is worth its weight in gold.......

You also have to remember every time someone calls these small man operations production slows down. He can higher more people get more machines but is there enough demand in Canada to warrant it?

Just be patient. Good things come to those who wait.

CYCBB

JMO
 
I sell both broughton and krieger. These guys get along. I am very pleased with the product line. The only reason I would choose one over the other is cut vs button or availability. One thing I like about broughton is I can call and talk to the owner at any time. I felt the 2 offered a very complimentary product line by having some of the best button and cut bbls in the world. Since I chamber myself I can make prefits alot faster then relying on the bbl maker and also offer prefits in krieger or broughton. The longer wait times with Shilen are generally for prefits but I have had some blanks take too long as well. Having import certs with 4 different makers helps to alleviate that problem a bit.
 
cycbb486 said:
You also have to remember every time someone calls these small man operations production slows down. He can higher more people get more machines but is there enough demand in Canada to warrant it?
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I believe that is the problem here in Canada. Not enough demand. We are a small market when it comes to custom barrels. When I was at the F-Class Eastern we had what, 35 shooters? How many out west? How many barrels do each of these shooters require a year? TR shooters are not exactly multiplying and I don't know how many BR shooters we have.

I know last year Rob had an order with the military to complete. We get put on hold. I understand that. Rob doesn't do just barrels. He makes other things to and does gunsmithing. When nobody needs barrels you have to make a living.

I'm convinced if an entrepreneur saw big money in barrel making we'd have them already. From what I see in Canada is barrel makers who do gunsmithing. Rob, Ron, Ted and Mick the top 4 so far.
 
Spoke with a boss at Bartlein who offered to sell a barrel machine. It's advanced CNC stuff, about 1.2 million. Also, they don't mind a dealer selling barrels alongside theirs.
 
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