L2, Rifle: Spring Rifle Match at EESA IPSC

The South of the border don't run IPSC matches, especially the IPSC Rifle matches. This was 2nd time in Ontario in last few years when anyone had targets at 300y mark at an IPSC Rifle match. The 1st time was at the same club, (though bigger and much brighter targets at that time). You'd have to go to the Europe to get some major IPSC Rifle experience...

BTW, I totally agree that the rest of the stages could have been shot with a handgun (and that would have been a much faster time too) and that is in line with the closing part of my comment.
 
667 said:
The 200/300m targets were clearly pointed out by flag waving 7.62.
They were also placed right next to large, easily seen blue barrels...
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Maybe I am color blind, but the right barrel was black that was hard to pickup without a scope.

I wonder how EESAers who are placed high on that stage would have performed there with the iron sights... :D
 
667 said:
The 200/300m targets were clearly pointed out by flag waving 7.62.
They were also placed right next to large, easily seen blue barrels.
I don't know how anyone wouldn't have been able to find/see them.
I agree with banger... It's great to shoot rifles at decent distances... They're rifles fer Pete's sake!!!
That's one of the reasons I just can't see getting into that cqb stuff... Rifles at 35m and under..?
Not enough of a challenge... IMO.
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That could have been just my inexperience talking.. Just couldn't identify many of them and ended up scoring zero on the stage due to all the mikes. As a guy who's never shot anything like this before, here's what went on in my head..
1) Is he at 200 or 300?
2) Is he pointing out a paper target or steel?
3) Will I even remember where he was? (the answer to that one is a definite no - just remembered guys out there somewhere waving flags)

This was a new experience for many of us. You seem to have found it easy enough? Any tips? How did you make sense of this? Thanks in advance.

Note on CQB: Modern military rifles (and their sporting equivalent) are used at all distances. At close ranges, you can't get by on accuracy alone, so speed becomes a factor. Just because someone can ring gongs at 500 in his sleep doesn't mean he'll do well in CQB matches.
 
667 said:
The 200/300m targets were clearly pointed out by flag waving 7.62.
They were also placed right next to large, easily seen blue barrels.
I don't know how anyone wouldn't have been able to find/see them.
I agree with banger... It's great to shoot rifles at decent distances... They're rifles fer Pete's sake!!!
That's one of the reasons I just can't see getting into that cqb stuff... Rifles at 35m and under..?
Not enough of a challenge... IMO.
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For 200/300/400yd targets, our range uses white barrels behind the targets. The targets are painted black. They also photograph/print the targets from the approx shooting location with an insert in the photo showing an enlarged view. It gives you an idea of where to look and what to look for.
 
The steel was painted white as per IPSC's suggestion, as well black backer board were placed behind them. I assume people now understand what they need to practice!
I did have another stage planned for the 300 metre range; it was a plate rack at 150 metres, and it was going to be free hand, nothing to support rifle.....I am glad I removed it, as we would still be there now!
I doubt I will be involved with another IPSC Rifle match......a Par time is a necessity for matches such as this, and Outlaw matches allow for that.
 
I don't think the target presentations were as much of an issue for those with magnified optics, but I do notice that everyone shooting Standard division zeroed the stage. I certainly couldn't see those targets with the naked eye. But... it was the same for everyone.

Given it was a 32 round course though, it made for a big swing factor in results. Over half the people in the match zeroed the stage and lost out on 160 points. If you got any points on that stage you were likely going to do very well in the overall.

IPSC hit factor scoring kind of is at fault here. If it were Time Plus you could just engage them and move on and still do decently on the stage. Hit factor scoring is not very forgiving of misses.

FWIW it sounds like they are going to add par times to the next Rifle rulebook in 2015.
 
7.62mm said:
The steel was painted white as per IPSC's suggestion, as well black backer board were placed behind them. I assume people now understand what they need to practice!
I did have another stage planned for the 300 metre range; it was a plate rack at 150 metres, and it was going to be free hand, nothing to support rifle.....I am glad I removed it, as we would still be there now!
I doubt I will be involved with another IPSC Rifle match......a Par time is a necessity for matches such as this, and Outlaw matches allow for that.
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Please don't think that we are ungrateful or that we didn't have a great time at the match or that I thought that the targets were inappropriate in any way, shape or form. Many of us don't have access to facilities that can come anywhere near EESA's level so we just don't have exposure to these conditions. That is why I wanted to find out if such a CoF was something to be normally expected and what to do to prepare for it. I think those are perfectly valid questions as only about 40% of the field recorded any score on that stage, which means that a good number of us just didn't have the skills to ID and engage targets at those ranges. By the way, I would have liked to offhand a plate rack at 150 - reasonably easy to hit, already known where all the targets are.
 
USPSA MG is probably what you want if you want to go by an existing rulebook. They are pretty sensible about allowable targets, par times, and the divisions are reasonable.
 
mechanik said:
USPSA MG is probably what you want if you want to go by an existing rulebook. They are pretty sensible about allowable targets, par times, and the divisions are reasonable.
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Or...
IMA rules...
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...UQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGnr7XjN9eJCboanH8BT8I3R0HFCA
Or better still... draw up your own rules and use whatever size/shaped targets you want.
It shouldn't matter what targets are used in a mstch as long ss everyone in the match shoots the same targets.
 
Guys in the US don't seem to have trouble using iron sights out to 500-600y.... as always, it's all about practice.

On the other hand, there is a reason i don't shoot irons anymore. ... got tired off missing :D
 
Onagoth said:
Guys in the US don't seem to have trouble using iron sights out to 500-600y.... as always, it's all about practice.
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Now, for those of us who don't have access to the facilities (not too many clubs in Ontario have ranges where that can be practiced and even when they do, action shooter access to them is often limited), I'd really appreciate some tips as you did quite well there...

1) Did you use binos or was naked-eye observation of the guys with the flags enough?

2) Did you draw a stage diagram during the "walkthrough"?

3) Any tips on identifying targets in a busy field of view, by just looking through a rifle scope?

4) Any tips on setting up practice opportunities at shorter distances?

Thanks for any tips you can offer us.
 
Yeah... I wonder what the hell we'd do if optics had never been invented?

I remember back when I was in the army... IIRC your basic rifle qualification meant you had to get X number of shots into a six inch group at 100 yards.
This was with a 7.62 FNC1.
NO optics...
As a matter if fact I don't think I ever saw an optic in use by anyone back then... and it wasn't all that long ago.. 1983 ish.

Okay. .. it was a while ago...
 
My 2cents

TRaTSeRiF said:
I'd really appreciate some tips
1) Did you use binos or was naked-eye observation of the guys with the flags enough?
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Pay attention to the walk through/stage brief... It's not time to talk about the last stage you "just" shot or discuss equipment/rifle set ups. Actually... It's not the time to talk PERIOD. STFU and listen. It would also help if everyone else on the range would STFU so the squad being briefed can hear the RO.


TRaTSeRiF said:
2) Did you draw a stage diagram during the "walkthrough"?
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I don't, but... Given enough time maybe that would work for some people. I prefer to "look" at the stage as it appears in 3D

TRaTSeRiF said:
3) Any tips on identifying targets in a busy field of view, by just looking through a rifle scope?
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Don't crank your magnification so high... Or spend $3000 on a scope that will allow you to crank it up without losing FOV.

TRaTSeRiF said:
4) Any tips on setting up practice opportunities at shorter distances?
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Nope... IMHO it can't be done. Sure, shooting at reduced size tagets at shorter distances may look/feel like you're farther (or is it "further") away, but... You're not. You're just shooting at a smaller target.
Your not factoring in trajectory, wind, gravity, sun spots or whats for lunch in the club house.

Not having access to longer ranges means I chroney my ammo and with the assistance of a ballistic calculator figure out how my projectile will behave at different distances.
I've found the data I get is pretty accurate. Certainly accurate enough for the games we play
 
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Yes, paying attention was helpful on that stage.
The funny looking guy on the quad went out there and stood behind each target and waived his flag, an action that most likely attracted all the turkeys that kept flying through the stage.
Not everyone was watching.

There were no visibility problems out to 200, but the 300 could have been slightly better.
If I was shooting irons, I could only see the one target clearly enough to have a chance.
The other would have received a couple of spray and prey shots and hoped for the best.
 
I really don't think there is anything about long range rifle that you can practice at shorter ranges....you gotta know your gear, ammo and then just practice. #Often times I rely on a chrony and ballistic app to know where I am at ranges beyond 300m, but its always a bit of a gamble. #(Queue the discussion on how we should be practicing for the 500-600y targets at the world shoot )#

The only other thing i can add is that it should have been obvious that stage 1 was a low hit factor stage....that should tell you some thing about spending 30 seconds trying to hit poppers at 300y that you either haven't practiced for or have no expectation of hitting.#....just generally speaking, not about anyone specifically
 
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