Ladder Test Results .308 WIN - PIC heavy

elkhuntr said:
The differences are within how you do the load work up. It remains a test and retest option until you have satisfied your criteria.

A competitive F class shooter is vying to place as many shots into the V (1.2" at 300m, 2.5" at 500 and so on.) I use three shots at distance to confirm a node, then 5 shots or more to verify node and vertical at the distances you want to shoot at. Some rifles may show exceptional results at 300m but at 500 all hell breaks loose. So it pays to test your loads at varying distances. Just because you find a node you cannot stop there and must verify at your intended target distance.

Find a node by adjusting loads 0.5 grains(coarse method) then +/- 0.3 at say 200m for a 308 win. For a 223 you will need more fine tuning at 0.3 for coarse test and =/- 0.1 grains fine tuning.
Once you find a suitable node, adjust your load accordingly for distance shooting. Example. Your node lies at x at 200m testing. Test three loads +/- 0.2 grains of powder from your node for 308 or and 0.1 for 223 at 300m or more. You will see how vertical holds at distance that the shorter tests will not tell you. You will know you have hit the sweet spot when you can keep the shots within your specified criteria (ie 0.5 MOA at distance or better).

I am finding more often than not that the mid nodes perform better than the top nodes because they seem to behave better. I find more fliers using the top nodes so have been baking off on powder. Your loads will vary by season and temperature. Generally I have found the mid node to behave more for these seasonal changes than that very appealing top node. Oh yeah....be sure you are within 15 seconds of the shot when closing the bolt...the longer you have the cartridge in that hot barrel...the more wonky you will see the results. I would look hard at that 42.2 load as a node to test further.

My 2c.
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So what is your method for finding said node. are you shooting 5 rnd groups at 200m? Then adjusting by .5 gr and shooting another 5 rnd group?
 
I load test at 200m to verify node. three shots at 0.5gr intervals. then verify node again at 200m +/-0.3gr. Then fine tune load for vertical at 300 and 500m. Use confirmed node +/-0.2g at 300m or 500m. Some where around that node will prove to be the best tune. Your results may vary.

I see no need to confirm the initial node at greater than 200m because of conditions. If you are not shooting bug holes at 100m or 200m, you are out of the initial node and perhaps one is out of practice. Shooting for groups at 300m+ is a learned task with tuned skills along with tuned equipment. Follow through is key. My 2c.
 
3 shot groups going up in 0.5 grains of powder, take the best group and then move the bullet out 5 thou and 10 thou, also move it in 5 and 10 thou, 5 groups of 3 shots, take best and go down half a grain of powder and then back up 0.3 at a time until smallest group is achieved, shot these loads just like your going to shoot the rifle once a load is developed. but before doing any of this..........swap out that trigger
 
longarm21 said:
Everything I've ever read says that every rifle is different and work up is required as taking load data from someone else is dangerous. I don't think saying "take your loads from the Internet" is good advice.....I understand that you're saying don't waste powder but I am trying to find a node for my rifle... I'm not sure how else I can do that.
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There are proven loads that work in just about anything. Ever wonder why so many riifles in 308win shoot fgmm so good? Or why 57gr of 4350 and a 165gr bullet is the load for 30-06
 
so my string of groups should look like this for example.

Group 1
42.0, 42.5, 43.0

Group 2
42.5, 43.0, 43.5

Group 3
43.0, 43.5, 44

Group 4
43.5, 44.0, 44.5

which ever has flattest vertical is my node?
 
longarm21 said:
so my string of groups should look like this for example.

Group 1
42.0, 42.5, 43.0

Group 2
42.5, 43.0, 43.5

Group 3
43.0, 43.5, 44

Group 4
43.5, 44.0, 44.5

which ever has flattest vertical is my node?
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shoot 3 shot groups of each powder load at it's own target, don't worry about where they hit just concern yourself with the group size, we can sight in later to get the point of aim to the point of impact
 
Ohhhhhh I was a little confused by the description. Yeah I have done that previously, before the ladder test. I will put up some data here tomorrow.
 
Here is what I did previous to the ladder test. Possible that this information is more valuable according to most of the posts on here. 5 rnd groups. 100m.

IMG_7679_zpsuyjaizon.jpg

IMG_7677_zps9t1chc3d.jpg

Then I did a few more to confirm.
IMG_7678_zpsszrx5zca.jpg
 
Of the best groups here, 43.2 really shines and looks like you have a nicely behaving window +/-0.2gr. Take it out to 300 and 500m and test vertical dispersion. If you are in conditions that are not perfect you will get windage, but the water line should be solid. If not to your liking I would try looking at 42.5 again as the data shows your 400m 42.2 load holds good vertical. Enjoy....
 
^^^^^I agree with that, load up 43.3 and play with the seating depth and see if it all shrinks or falls apart, if it shrinks then you may be able to add a bit of powder and get the velocity up, the SMK likes to be right around 2600 fps
 
First thing I would do, short of having gotten a whack of them for free, is drop the 168's and go to 155's(lapua, sierra or berger, whichever you can get). 45-46 of varget or N150(or the dozen other powders that work fine with them).
If it won't group that, it won't group much of anything, and you get better ballistics with the 155's since they're easy to push around 2900fps.
 
SND said:
First thing I would do, short of having gotten a whack of them for free, is drop the 168's and go to 155's(lapua, sierra or berger, whichever you can get). 45-46 of varget or N150(or the dozen other powders that work fine with them).
If it won't group that, it won't group much of anything, and you get better ballistics with the 155's since they're easy to push around 2900fps.
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But will blow around more then something heavier. If I was going to change bullets I'd be going heavier not lighter
 
hometownhero said:
But will blow around more then something heavier. If I was going to change bullets I'd be going heavier not lighter
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If you compare a good 155 at the speed it can be pushed at out of that rifle, vs a 185 berger, which is the next best thing(and more $/trouble to find). If he's just shooting out to 300-400m, 155's will stay it with, and often enough beat it within that range. Further it goes past that then the 185 will start to have more advantage. Seeing how the top TR guys can group 155's at 800-900M, quickly removes the idea that 155's aren't competitive, It's a darn good bullet in a 308.
 
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It doesn't matter if it gets blown around. All bullets do but to differing degrees. Any bullet can easily get blown out of the bull for a 4 or even a three. The shooter has to compensate for this. Trying to beat the wind with bullet choice is unlikely to win the match for you. Learning what your combination does in the wind and learning to compensate for it will.
 
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