Ladder test steps

Sniffer

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So today I prepped up a bunch of 6.5 Creedmoor brass (over 200 cases) ready to load

Question is what size of steps should my ladder test be?

I`m using Sierra 140gr and IMR 4350, load data from Sierras site shows starting load at 36.3 and max at 42.3

So if I start at 36.3 and make say 10 rounds, how much powder should my next 10 round batch contain and so on?

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I would load 3 of each in 0.3 gr increments. Shoot the string 3 times. have someone in the butts label each shot (a walki talki is handy) or use a good spotting scope to make a note on a plot sheet where each shot goes. This is best done by a spotter - not by the shooter.

Can you shoot them at 300 or 500 yards? 100 would not tell you much, and what it does tell you can be misleading.

Read this:
http://www.gunsandtactics.com/performing-the-ladder-test

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html
 
100 metres is essentially useless. At that range you should be one-holing to at worst clover-leafing 5 rounds and you can't tell anything. 200 metres starts showing some spread.

I do 5 rounds at each selected step, shot at individual separate targets. Initial step rate is 0.5gr. Started at 38.0gr and topped out at 42.5. Everything down the pipe is chronographed. I personally saw NO sign of any excess pressure with my rifle and I watch and look very carefully. Don't assume you can do the same with your rifle. If you start to see pressure signs, STOP. I have done ladders like this hundreds of times for various rifles and calibers ranging from .223 to 300WM. I will do this 50 round ladder once or usually twice to confirm it. Once you have the data you should be able to find at least one good node and possibly two where the accuracy is very good and vertical spread is minimized. In other words, normally you will get incrementally higher speed with the increasing charge, and the POI will tend to shift around between each 5 round group. A node occurs where the POI will tend to remain pretty constant for two or three groups, say 39.0, 39.5 and 40.0 grs. Once these nodes are identified I do a second series of ladders centered on each with either 0.1 or normally 0.2gr increments. 5 shots at each and definitely shot at least twice. I do mine at 300m as that distance really starts showing the vertical spread variability AND I can still see the impact points through the rifle scope at 32x on my 6.5.
 
I use groups of three of each load (like the guys above). Each group of three, I colour the bullet with markers, purchased from Dollar Store. Then on paper, I make up a chart: with the load, colour code, and a space to write the speed (you are chronying these, aren't you?).

I don't fire a group at a time. I fire one from red, one from blue, one from green, one from black, one from violet, one uncoloured, then go back to red, etc. I shoot at targets I made that are four 3" x 3" grids on the sheet, one colour per grid, with the centre squares having bold X through them. Since my scope is dialled in, I won't stray too far from the X... and anything I do stray, will be likely the load's fault.

Why colour them? When they strike paper, the colour leaves a ring. Easy to tell which shot was which, in case you have a flyer that interferes with another target (or if you're shooting out a couple hundred yards, you can shoot all of these onto one target, and you'll see which group better in relation to others.) AS mentioned, 100 yards, you don't want too many shots on each target, or you won't see anything.

After shooting, I'll pull the targets. I might see a decent grouping on red, better on blue, nice on green, horrible black, not bad violet, "meh" uncoloured. So apparently the green load is the one to use for that rifle. Any good grouping is called a "node", and as you go up in pressure, you could find a couple nodes before you hit max.

The crony is there to ensure your speed does not exceed the max speed listed on the max load recipe. That's NOT an accurate way to tell you're over pressure, because you're not using the same rifle that the recipe used, but it's a good safety net - as you approach the max, start paying more attention to comparing cases with the ones on the lower-end loads.

For target shooting, I go with the best grouping. If there are two good ones, I'll take the lowest (less recoil, less wear on barrel, cheaper on powder), and if I were get back into hunting, I'd take the highest load node.
 
3-5 rounds isn't a ladder test; you're shooting groups at that stage. And a ladder is done with the same PoA for all rounds.
That being said, if your method works for you....
 
3-5 rounds isn't a ladder test; you're shooting groups at that stage. And a ladder is done with the same PoA for all rounds.
That being said, if your method works for you....

When I said 3 rounds of each, I mean shoot the ladder 3 times. That is, 3 separate targets with each showing about 10 different powder charges.
 
3-5 rounds isn't a ladder test; you're shooting groups at that stage. And a ladder is done with the same PoA for all rounds.
That being said, if your method works for you....

I just do it with 10 targets, 5 same charge shots at each to get an average POI at each charge level. Yes, it is a group at each charge level. I haven't met anyone yet who can shoot a ladder twice the same. If you shoot 3 (Ganderite) or 5 (Me) shots at each charge level you get a group on which you can get a centroid with an average velocity. The POA does not change - I always aim at the exact center of each target. The bullets end up wherever they hit the paper (the POI) and when I am shooting well, each charge level normally ends up in nice sub MOA groups which tells me a lot about whether I am doing everything right or not. Bottom line is Ganderite is using 3 targets with 10 incrementally charged shots on each, and I am doing 5 same charge shots incrementing the charge level at 10 targets.

As an aside, I too colour my bullets with Sharpies in a set sequence so that I can tell the black, from the blue, from the red, from the green, from the yellow impacts, just in case there is any overlap.
 
Theres a lot of good tips here - thanks guys

I`m thinking of setting up multiple targets (right beside each other - same distance away) and make up 5 similar rounds for each step. Then I`ll shoot the loads in order at their matching target (i.e. load 1 at target 1, load 2 at target 2 etc) until I have a 5 round group - tightest group wins!

I assume that its then worth using that load as a baseline and testing some more with smaller steps (i.e. going up/down in 0.1 grain increments until I hit the high/low values I had tested previously)?

To clarify I will be using a chronograph (Magnetospeed)
 
Some will use a chrono and find accuracy nodes w/ bullet speed. I'm tempted to use this technique even if I'm a novice shooter and reloader.

 
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/load-tuning.281/

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/precision-reloading-for-long-range-hunting.17/

This should help. DO NOT load 10rds per step... that is a huge waste of ammo.

if conditions are windy, use flags, use 3rds. Around the best nodes, go back in 0.1gr increments 3rds at 300yds. You will quickly see what works.

Once you have narrowed down the best loads, by all means, shot as many rds and groups as you want to confirm but at this time, you are just narrowing down your options.

I would suggest you start at 39.5gr and work up in 0.2gr increments to end around 42.0gr... if no pressure signs and velocity is under 2600fps, add more powder.

Best node is in the 2600 to 2700fps.

If the rifle will shoot, you will see results very quickly. Then there are so many other wonderful bullets to try :)

Jerry
 
Some will use a chrono and find accuracy nodes w/ bullet speed. I'm tempted to use this technique even if I'm a novice shooter and reloader.


There are some very interesting concepts here and Scott (guy in the middle) is one of the US top PRS shooters. This method isn't a process that will work in a pure accuracy game like F class... unless you got real lucky. SD/ES as a measure of accuracy at distance is NOT reliable.

Lots of discussion on this forum and others ... for those that shoot for the smallest groups at 1000yds and further, we will tune differently as I have described in my articles.

Small ES and SD numbers usually occur in a load proven to be accurate at 1000yds. However, having good ES and SD numbers doesn't make it a good 1000yds load.

Big topic but simply put, let the target tell you how to tune your powder charge.

200yds as a min... 300yds as ideal. And then many will even fine tune at 1000yds cause it matters.

Jerry
 
Ladder testing is my primary method, although we all have different systems, but just reading here and having my own theories I just had a revelation.

Everyone talks increments , maybe a rule of thumb to go by for initial ladders is 1% of your charge weight 100 grain capacity go in 1 gr increment, 50gr , go in .5 grain , 25gr go in .25. , can find your nodes and fine tune further.

Like Jerry stated you will know pretty quick if it is working or not.

If you can cover your ladder test with a sheet of paper or a cookie sheet at 300 yards is a big sign.
 
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