Large caliber Luger proto?

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selling4dad

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Hello there,

I have this "thing" here that no one can identify, including me. The story says that this was taken from a bombed out German gun factory. The barrel isn't rifled and measures 0.42 ". There are two engravings on it "GL" and "M" on the barrel where the large pin links with the knee action. It is a very peculiar looking gun with a safety grip feature. I would really appreciate comments about this prototype and possible links to similar handguns.

Update: A 45 ACP round fits comfortably in the gun! Also added pictures showing the inside of the firing mechanism.

Thanks.
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If that was in one of the big US auctions, along with it's back story...you'd probably find out what it's worth to a well heeled collector.

No mention of it in any books?
 
Thanks for your reply, I am just starting to look into it and have found nothing remotely similar. I will post it down south and see what comes out of it.
 
selling4dad said:
Thanks for your reply, I am just starting to look into it and have found nothing remotely similar. I will post it down south and see what comes out of it.
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Why don't you send some pics to Joe Salter's??

From the looks of that piece it wasn't designed to fire a round, just to check it out for feasibility and fine tune function if warranted. May have been a replacement for the P-08?? To bad some documentation wasn't picked up as well but in this case there may not have been any near the mock up.

Salter will let you know it has any value and may be willing to include it in an auction. John C Denner might also be a good place to seek some information.
 
I seem to recall that there were a few lugers produced in 45 ACP as part of a trial for the US.

perhaps this may have been one of the mockups prior to producing the trial pistols?


and a quick google found this

guns that featured in the 1907 U.S. Army service pistol trials. While there were many interesting entrants, for some reason the product of Georg Luger received the most acclaim. As noted above, the toggle-top has always been a popular auto pistol, and as far as aesthetics, workmanship and popularity with the military and civilians there can be no doubt that it ranks right at the top of the list. In his landmark work Lugers at Random, author Charles Kenyon, Jr., goes so far as to say, “The rarity and historical importance of this pistol to collectors makes it literally priceless.”

Actually there were two .45-caliber Lugers sent over for the trials. Gun number “1” was the actual test pistol, while number “2” was held in reserve. Both autos were made under the personal supervision of Herr Luger and were stamped on the rear of their toggles with the initials “GL.” Otherwise they were unmarked.


Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/would-you-shoot-the-million-dollar-luger/#ixzz42v3pdPA4
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https://www.forgottenweapons.com/krausewerke-45acp-luger-at-ria/


KrauseWerke .45ACP Luger at RIA


The story of the .45ACP Lugers is a bit complex, and widely misunderstood. What most people believe is that two such guns were made for US military testing, one was lost, and the other is worth a million dollars. Well, that’s virtually all incorrect. In actuality, probably about a half dozen were made in a couple different forms by DWM. That does include two for US trials, but neither of those guns is known to still exist. What is interesting is that it is actually pretty easy to know that. We have a photo of one of the original trials Lugers in the 1907 trial report, and when compared to the “million dollar Luger” (which actually went for just under $500,000 when it was last sold in 2010), it clearly has a slightly different grip angle. Fact is, the US insisted on a 60 degree grip angle instead of the standard 55.5 degrees for the Luger. The two trials guns were made with 60 degree grips, but the handful of other experimental and prototype .45ACP Lugers – including both of the ones currently known in the US – have the standard 55.5 degree grips. In addition, both of the ones in the US are chambered for standard .45ACP, where the trials guns used a 1906 version of the .45ACP cartridge which was a millimeter longer. The two guns in the US today are authentic DWM Lugers made by the factory in .45ACP, but they were made for purposes other than US military trials. There would have been potential for commercial sales, and other countries interested in a .45 version besides the US, and that was the reason those two guns (and probably a couple others since lost) were built.

Anyway, the point of this is to set the backdrop for a .45ACP Luger being sold by RIA in their April Premiere auction. It is a gorgeous museum-quality reproduction made by Mike Krause in California, serial number 5. It is unfired and immaculate, so far as I can tell. However, I did have a chance to put a few rounds through Krause gun #4, which was a very cool opportunity. I included some slow motion footage of it in today’s video. I suspect whoever buys it will leave it unfired, but they will be missing out on a lot of fun if they do.
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selling4dad said:
Thanks for the info, I will definitely do my homework on this one...
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good luck

that is going to one interesting rabbit hole to dive into

also there was something about Chineese built lugers in 45ACP I saw but not really related to this one based on the back story. but something I learned in my brief search.

this internet thing is good for somethign other then ####....
 
For what it's worth, rock island auction had a very similar looking pistol. It might be a Chinese made pistol. They made a lot of wonky pistols.
 
selling4dad said:
Hello there,

I have this "thing" here that no one can identify, including me. The story says that this was taken from a bombed out German gun factory. The barrel isn't rifled and measures 0.42 ". There are two engravings on it "GL" and "M" on the barrel where the large pin links with the knee action. It is a very peculiar looking gun with a safety grip feature. I would really appreciate comments about this prototype and possible links to similar handguns.

Thanks.
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Did the source of the story mention which factory? That would be a huge start.
 
Well you have a GL stamped on the toggle. Why don't you send a E-mail off to James Julia's or RIA. If it is a prototype they will be beating a path to your door.
 
interesting mechanically. looks like it's designed to have the breech block stroke rearwards while the barrel stays stationary. then eject and pick up a round on the forward stroke. I would suspect that a prototype that never saw the light of day, as the required machining would exceed that needed for a luger LOL. It does look like the copied the trigger mechanism from at 1911 though.

edit pardon me, short recoil with the barrel moving with the breech until unlocking. Must have had a hammer, can't see where a striker mechanism would fit in the breech block.

edit edit must have been striker fired, and is that a grip saftey?

that thing is fascinating. gotta be worth a pile to someone! workshop prototype for sure. probably the only one existing.
 
Thank you for your analysis Jeff, yes it is equipped with a safety grip. Many features of this gun makes it special, the way the parts of the toggle are machined to fit into one another demands high accuracy. I opened the the rear of the bolt and removed a piece from the firing pin mechanism, there must have been a missing spring in there. I still have to loosen the action completely but the way this gun is made is like nothing I have seen yet. Well I just tried to measure the beveled area where the base of a bullet would seat and a 45 ACP round fits perfect in there! I will update the pictures to show that.
 
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