Last round is a flyer???
- Thread starter Fishermaan4x4
- Start date
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
It all depends on your perspective. There are so many things that can go wrong. I start with the big one ME, then we can go with freak wind gust, forgot to top off the charge (back to me), bad primer causing poor ignition. bullet that shouldn't have got through QC, etc. I have a 5 shot group that's 2" with 4 inside 3/4" I call that a good one and pat myself on the back.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Are you kidding? That bullet would be long gone if not. Once that primer goes off things happen pretty fast.Your right there are things that can have an effect, like how long it takes for the primer to go off after the trigger is pulled. Once that bullet gets moving it's gone, at 2500 fps it will go 3/4 km in one sec.
- Location
- Georgetown Ontario
Bullet is long gone before the bolt even begins to move. I find it is usually the first shot that is a little off from the rest anyway. Some people speculate that's because you chamber the first round and the rifle action chambers the rest. Others say a cold bore shot hits different from a hot bore shot. I never paid it much attention as the difference has been too small to worry me anyway.
We experienced this phenomenon when testing Blackfeather's adjustable oprod guide in early March.
We'd be shooting 4 out of 5 1" groups consistently with a stock Chinese M305 (with minor tweaking) but the fifth would fly.
After discussing it with several people, as far as I know, we concluded that it was due to "up pressure" on the bolt. When the rounds are in the mag they press on the bolt's underside. Mag empty (or missing), no or less bolt support from underneath.
Not all rifles exhibit this behaviour?
We were also told the following:
"The first and last rounds fired at Rock Island during EBR targeting consistantly shot different than the rest of the rounds out of the magazine.
We alocated 8 rounds for performance testing with it sometimes taking more or less for the rifle to settle down into the chassis. I always ignored the first and the last if the mag went empty on me... ."
(But of course, we can't do that here!)
Instead, we'd simply add another round to the magazine before the last round and sure enough, our "fliers" were gone.
The other lesson learned from Gus Fisher in the USA was not to clean our gas assemblies too often!
We'd be shooting 4 out of 5 1" groups consistently with a stock Chinese M305 (with minor tweaking) but the fifth would fly.
After discussing it with several people, as far as I know, we concluded that it was due to "up pressure" on the bolt. When the rounds are in the mag they press on the bolt's underside. Mag empty (or missing), no or less bolt support from underneath.
Not all rifles exhibit this behaviour?
We were also told the following:
"The first and last rounds fired at Rock Island during EBR targeting consistantly shot different than the rest of the rounds out of the magazine.
We alocated 8 rounds for performance testing with it sometimes taking more or less for the rifle to settle down into the chassis. I always ignored the first and the last if the mag went empty on me... ."
(But of course, we can't do that here!)
Instead, we'd simply add another round to the magazine before the last round and sure enough, our "fliers" were gone.
The other lesson learned from Gus Fisher in the USA was not to clean our gas assemblies too often!
Sluggo_m14
CGN Regular
- Location
- State of Disbelief
did you try loading the mag with one round for each shot?
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Interesting idea, I wonder if it would cause the groups to open up as the loose fifth shot may be caused by a "sloppy bolt".
Try shooting a few groups with the gas off.
The best example I have of this was 4 shots touching in a nice vertical string and then, BLAMMO!, last round sh@ts the bed and makes the group twice the size. For me, I was thinking I lost the mind game with the pressure of that nice sweet group. Hell, I was just one round away from shooting a 5/8" group with a Hungry clinic'd M14s and a B square mount.
For that time anyway, I could not have been bolt hold open.
The best example I have of this was 4 shots touching in a nice vertical string and then, BLAMMO!, last round sh@ts the bed and makes the group twice the size. For me, I was thinking I lost the mind game with the pressure of that nice sweet group. Hell, I was just one round away from shooting a 5/8" group with a Hungry clinic'd M14s and a B square mount.
For that time anyway, I could not have been bolt hold open.
Funny, mine consistently throws the first one out of the mag 2" left. Tried different mags, but no difference. Workaround so far is to keep the mag in the gun and charge with stripper clips. Guess every one of these rifles has its thing that makes you scratch your head.
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
Most likely has to do with the way the round is feeding.
Common with 1st round flyers, in many .22's because the first round is loaded from an open bolt, and the subsequent rounds from a closed bolt.
Has to do with the feeding being slightly different, and the inconsistency causes the 2 rounds to print differently.
Solution is to load the mag from a closed bolt, and worked in both my 10/22 target, and Savage MKII to improve groupings.
Might be a similar issue with the last round feeding differently, causing bullet setback, deformation, scratching, etc.
Common with 1st round flyers, in many .22's because the first round is loaded from an open bolt, and the subsequent rounds from a closed bolt.
Has to do with the feeding being slightly different, and the inconsistency causes the 2 rounds to print differently.
Solution is to load the mag from a closed bolt, and worked in both my 10/22 target, and Savage MKII to improve groupings.
Might be a similar issue with the last round feeding differently, causing bullet setback, deformation, scratching, etc.
Ummmm...no, it takes longer than that. It's a physics sorta thing. The whole deceleration thing. Gee....and who said we'd never need to know that stuff way back in high school.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Ummmm...no, it takes longer than that. It's a physics sorta thing. The whole deceleration thing. Gee....and who said we'd never need to know that stuff way back in high school.
Smart ass, ok so it's closer to 1.5 sec. My point that the initial meter is covered in a very small period time is still supported by my false claim.Maybe I'm in space, ever think of that Einstien.
I think the ammonia vapours have gone to my head.
