Lathe Training/Instruction

Father Hood

Father Hood

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Lower Mainland, BC
Hoping this is the right place to post this. I am a precision rifle enthusiast and can't stop thinking about acquiring a lathe some day but also want to find some training or Instruction first. I am not looking to be a gunsmith or machinist, but those two subjects are about all I can find officially within the trade schools. I live in the lower mainland and am wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction to find training on how to just use a lathe for the purpose of custom/match barrels. So I want to learn how to chamber, thread, crown, etc and do it well.

Any help would be appreciated

cheers
 
How about learning from a DVD?
ht tp://www.grizzly.com/products/DVD-Chambering-A-Championship-Match-Barrel/H8396?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com
(The price is beyond stupid... Maybe find a loaner somewhere?)
 
Try the textbooks "technology of machine tools" should be able to get from Bcit. 1st and 2nd year machining pretty much covers up to threading on a lathe but usually need a sponsor and 5 weeks each year of school.
 
Check out Guy Lautards books.

Also, it would likely be a good idea to find a MENTOR in your area.

There are more than few on this site.
 
gnmontey said:
You might be able to link up with some local workshops, clubs etc through this site. https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/

I'm in the same boat only I already picked up a lathe. I need some one on one hands on mentoring.

M
Click to expand...

x2 here. Mine is a Liang Dai, Taiwanese and the instructions are about zero. finally figured out the back gears, so I guess I'm making progress. Now, on to setting it up for threading :)

Grizz
 
Youtube, youtube, youtube.

Buy a cheap ass lathe and start watching people like:

mrpete
abom79
oxcotool
etc

There is more info on basic lathe operation on youtube than any trade school. CNC is another matter.

mrpete is a retired shop teacher and abom79 is a journeyman machinist who is an excellent teacher making excellent videos, especially on threading if it is an area of concern.
 
joehunt said:
Buy a lathe and start making chips.
Joe
Click to expand...

Yeah, this.

Reading about it, seeing videos, it's all good, but doesn't sub very well for actually making parts that you need or want.

Threading is only scary and complicated if you let yourself believe it is. :)

Technology of Machine Tools is a great book, lots of really great info, but you do not need the latest version, which is what you get from the school bookstore. Look for an older edition and save a bunch of money. Used book stores are a good place to haunt.
A used copy of Machinery's Handbook if cheap, is worth having. For 20 bucks or less. Otherwise, all the same info can be found around the web when needed as can a bunch of stuff that never got included in MH.
I think that you would be very lucky to come away from a night course with more than just the most basic of experiences. Like as not, the money would be better spent on tooling or materials to practice upon at home.
There are several clubs in the lower mainland that might serve as a means of meeting other metalworkers. The live steam club is the main one to come to mind. I do not know if there is an informal group like the one I used to go to in Edmonton, near you, but like as not, once you do manage to make contact, you will find quite a few folks that are pretty happy to have someone sharing the affliction.

Cheers
Trev
 
CanAm said:
Youtube, youtube, youtube.

Buy a cheap ass lathe and start watching people like:

mrpete
abom79
oxcotool
etc

There is more info on basic lathe operation on youtube than any trade school. CNC is another matter.

mrpete is a retired shop teacher and abom79 is a journeyman machinist who is an excellent teacher making excellent videos, especially on threading if it is an area of concern.
Click to expand...


All of this information is very good as is the info from the others replying to the OP. The thing is, it depends a lot on how much basic knowledge the OP has concerning lathes and their operating parameters.

What seems straight forward to many here is a complete mystery to many.

A lot of people are immediately lost by nomenclature or terminology relating to lathes and other metal working machines. In many cases it's VooDoo magic. That's why I suggested a MENTOR.

Online stuff is great, once the new operator understands his machine and its components.

The old style lathes/milling machines were pretty simple as far as levers and back gears/quick change gear boxes went. Also a basic understanding of mathematical equations and understanding ratios etc is a great aid to manufacturing a part from a piece of round stock, square bar or a rifled barrel blank.

Another issue is that the machines being worked on by the people in the youtube videos LOOK COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in comparison to the machines being used by hobby machinists. The dials and levers are in different locations and sadly, many of the Oriental machines don't come with manuals. The manuals are often available online but if you want or need a hard copy to take to your machine as a reference, you will have to print it yourself.

Cutting chips???? Great advice to a point. Most newbies have no idea what tooling they need to cut those chips. They also don't have any bits of scrap to practice on or access to it, so tend to head for a supplier and purchase expensive stock. A length of cold rolled or even black iron to practice on can cost an easy $20 for a foot long piece. A piece of scrap can be picked up at a scrap metal dealer for a few dollars.

I picked up a length of 1 inch stainless round stock that was 4 feet long last spring for making stainless muzzle brakes. The supplier wanted $60 for a 3 foot length. I went to a scrap yard and found a four foot length for $10.

The OP, is under the impression that he can just learn the basic steps to turning out match barrels for his actions and not have to learn anything else. Those of us that know better are trying to explain this just won't happen.

To the rest here in a similar situation, I have a bit of advice. IF YOU CAN'T FIND a willing mentor, watch the online videos to at least get an idea of what SHOULD be happening.

FOR GOODNESS SAKES, LEARN THE BASIC SAFETY PRACTICES. Such as don't leave chuck keys in drill press or lathe/mill chucks. Darn those things hurt when they bounce off your forehead.

Wear sleeve covers or wear short sleeve shirts. It's amazing how fast your arm or hand can get wrapped around the piece you're working on. Fingers and even hands can be PULLED OFF, even by relatively low horsepower machines. I saw a fellow lose his middle finger on a drill press because he refused to take off his cotton gloves and the finger got caught on a sharp edge.

These machines only do what they are designed to do. They don't think. They don't care who you are or who you think you are. They don't care if your handsome or handy. If you do something stupid, they will bite you. They don't know and don't care.

When you push the START button or throw the ON switch, don't rest on the machine. People do this sort of sh1t and get HURT. Don't rest your hand or body on the material you're working. YOU WILL GET HURT.

I know all of this seems obvious but even experienced trades people get bit hard because they did such things while being distracted in one manner or another.

EVEN the SLOWEST SPEED on these machines is blindingly fast when you get caught in them. For GOODNESS SAKES, DON'T FORGET ABOUT YOUR HAIR. Even hair a FEW INCHES LONG can get caught. I saw a lovely young lady lose half of her scalp one morning because she didn't put on her cap before leaning over a piece being turned for her inspection machine. Whose fault was it. It was the operator's fault because she shouldn't have been anywhere near that machine while it was operating. She was an attractive distraction and he forgot basic safety practices and she wasn't aware of them. She was lucky and they managed to reattach her scalp but she will never be able to sport a short hair cut without the nasty scar being visible.
 
Last edited:
Darryl Holland put out a video back in the stone ages that is very good ( an AGI production) that is stupid expensive from the few times I've seen it for sale. Just saw that the complete video is on you tube h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70p1iuVQ1vs , check it out before its pulled.
 
bearhunter said:
All of this information is very good as is the info from the others replying to the OP. The thing is, it depends a lot on how much basic knowledge the OP has concerning lathes and their operating parameters.

What seems straight forward to many here is a complete mystery to many.

A lot of people are immediately lost by nomenclature or terminology relating to lathes and other metal working machines. In many cases it's VooDoo magic. That's why I suggested a MENTOR.

Online stuff is great, once the new operator understands his machine and its components.

The old style lathes/milling machines were pretty simple as far as levers and back gears/quick change gear boxes went. Also a basic understanding of mathematical equations and understanding ratios etc is a great aid to manufacturing a part from a piece of round stock, square bar or a rifled barrel blank.

Another issue is that the machines being worked on by the people in the youtube videos LOOK COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in comparison to the machines being used by hobby machinists. The dials and levers are in different locations and sadly, many of the Oriental machines don't come with manuals. The manuals are often available online but if you want or need a hard copy to take to your machine as a reference, you will have to print it yourself.

Cutting chips???? Great advice to a point. Most newbies have no idea what tooling they need to cut those chips. They also don't have any bits of scrap to practice on or access to it, so tend to head for a supplier and purchase expensive stock. A length of cold rolled or even black iron to practice on can cost an easy $20 for a foot long piece. A piece of scrap can be picked up at a scrap metal dealer for a few dollars.

I picked up a length of 1 inch stainless round stock that was 4 feet long last spring for making stainless muzzle brakes. The supplier wanted $60 for a 3 foot length. I went to a scrap yard and found a four foot length for $10.

The OP, is under the impression that he can just learn the basic steps to turning out match barrels for his actions and not have to learn anything else. Those of us that know better are trying to explain this just won't happen.

To the rest here in a similar situation, I have a bit of advice. IF YOU CAN'T FIND a willing mentor, watch the online videos to at least get an idea of what SHOULD be happening.

FOR GOODNESS SAKES, LEARN THE BASIC SAFETY PRACTICES. Such as don't leave chuck keys in drill press or lathe/mill chucks. Darn those things hurt when they bounce off your forehead.

Wear sleeve covers or wear short sleeve shirts. It's amazing how fast your arm or hand can get wrapped around the piece you're working on. Fingers and even hands can be PULLED OFF, even by relatively low horsepower machines. I saw a fellow lose his middle finger on a drill press because he refused to take off his cotton gloves and the finger got caught on a sharp edge.

These machines only do what they are designed to do. They don't think. They don't care who you are or who you think you are. They don't care if your handsome or handy. If you do something stupid, they will bite you. They don't know and don't care.

When you push the START button or throw the ON switch, don't rest on the machine. People do this sort of sh1t and get HURT. Don't rest your hand or body on the material you're working. YOU WILL GET HURT.

I know all of this seems obvious but even experienced trades people get bit hard because they did such things while being distracted in one manner or another.

EVEN the SLOWEST SPEED on these machines is blindingly fast when you get caught in them. For GOODNESS SAKES, DON'T FORGET ABOUT YOUR HAIR. Even hair a FEW INCHES LONG can get caught. I saw a lovely young lady lose half of her scalp one morning because she didn't put on her cap before leaning over a piece being turned for her inspection machine. Whose fault was it. It was the operator's fault because she shouldn't have been anywhere near that machine while it was operating. She was an attractive distraction and he forgot basic safety practices and she wasn't aware of them. She was lucky and they managed to reattach her scalp but she will never be able to sport a short hair cut without the nasty scar being visible.
Click to expand...

That is where mrpete comes in. His series starts at the beginning.
 
Morning

Once again guys, more great comments. I appreciate both approaches of buy a lathe start doing it and the safety side of getting some basic equipment/safety instruction. It is exactly what I would want to do. I would be willing to pay for schooling if there was something available that started with the basics but also targeted this discipline so yes a Mentor would be ideal. I often wonder how our great smiths started out? Were they all machinists first? I can't help but believe that some must of come from the shooting world first and found someone to Mentor off of in addition to formal training. I am new to machining and I have no visions of grandeur about instantly becoming an expert on my first attempt but as I think most guys who love precision shooting partly do so for the pursuit of perfection. When I started adding reloading it was the same enjoyment of pursuing "perfect" ammo. The goal or ability for me to one day "build" my own rifle, then load for it just completes the circle and would be extremely satisfying not to mention practical.

Thanks again, there is a fair bit of reference suggestions here that I will be following up on.

cheers
 
BigRobb said:
Good advice
Common sense and a little mechanical ability will be an asset.
Click to expand...

I have taught several dozens of apprentice Military Tradesmen and women to do basic lathe work and make accurate parts on a lathe and mill.

You can't get very far just beating theory to death.

I generally start under the working assumption that we are not dealing with the kind of mental midget that pokes his or her fingers into a running blender because the blades have disappeared. I figure that it can safely be seen that the individual has survived in to adulthood, they can be reasonably expected to be able to see the hazards themselves. No? This being, essentially a gun owners site, do we start every conversation with warnings not to try to look down the barrel of a loaded gun? Not so much.

People have died in metal lathes. People have died in cars too. Lots more. The danger is going to be determined by the persons willingness to do dumb.

Wear safety glasses, keep your fingers out of pinch points, roll up your sleeves, don't track chips on to the carpets at home. That latter is like to really cause you some misery if you skip it! :)

Lots of books and videos out there that will show the basics of tool grinding. $10 worth of HSS bits goes a very long ways. Being able to grind your own tools will keep you from being backed into a corner by tool availability. It will be the smallest portion of a lot of thinking and planning, as well as setting up, for what will essentially be, a very small amount of cutting. Once you understand the cause and effect of the cutting edge shapes and the various materials, then switch up to carbide if you see fit to do so. That too will be a learning experience, but like to be less expensive and less frustrating, if you get some time on the lathe first.

If I had to point a person t a few things that will aid in getting some good experiences, I would suggest that some known stock of a free-machining variety would be very useful. 12L14 steel is pretty cheap, and cuts almost as smoothly as Brass.
It does pretty much anything needed of gunsmithing material except welding (the L, in the name, is for Lead, in the alloy, which provides the free machining properties). Old barrels make really good material to practice on too.

In my experience, people fear the tool grinding, threading, and the 4 jaw chuck, in about that order. They shouldn't. They are just skills to learn. There is a LOT of hooey written about all of them, about how hard they are to do, when what should have been written and said is how easy they are once you have learned some basics and practiced. Avoiding it just puts it off till later. Eventually you need those skills, so learning them from the outset is a pretty solid foundation for jobs that will really make you have to think about how you are going to get fro A to B.

Cheers
Trev
 
Father Hood said:
....So I want to learn how to chamber, thread, crown, etc and do it well.

Any help would be appreciated

cheers
Click to expand...

You're missing the trees for the forest. All those things you want to do with a lathe are based on the basic skills that would be taught in the trade school machinist's course. You NEED those basics to do the rifle work you are considering. Otherwise it's like trying to frame a house when you don't know what nail sizes to use or anything about what is normal for stud spacing and other "basics".

Learning to operate a lathe is also very much a hands on thing. So all in all it would be better to commit to it and buy a lathe that will do the sort of work you intend and then take the evening course and also read lots of books on lathe operation and watch a lot of You Tube videos. But mostly just dive in and try things after seeing some basics on how to do it. Long before you thread your first barrel you should have threaded lots of rod and barrel like Sched 80 pipe to get the hang of it all.

Keep in mind too that it's not "just a lathe". Tooling for the lathe in terms of chucks and various cutting tools that are likely to easily cost you 1/3 again as much as the lathe even for the basics. And more than that if you opt for fancy tool posts and collet chucks. Plus you'll 'll need at least some minimal shop around the lathe with a fair number of hand and power tools plus a good bench and sturdy bench vise. This is not a "light duty" hobby to get into even for something as focused as "just barrel work".
 
BCRider said:
You're missing the trees for the forest. All those things you want to do with a lathe are based on the basic skills that would be taught in the trade school machinist's course. You NEED those basics to do the rifle work you are considering. Otherwise it's like trying to frame a house when you don't know what nail sizes to use or anything about what is normal for stud spacing and other "basics".

Learning to operate a lathe is also very much a hands on thing. So all in all it would be better to commit to it and buy a lathe that will do the sort of work you intend and then take the evening course and also read lots of books on lathe operation and watch a lot of You Tube videos. But mostly just dive in and try things after seeing some basics on how to do it. Long before you thread your first barrel you should have threaded lots of rod and barrel like Sched 80 pipe to get the hang of it all.

Keep in mind too that it's not "just a lathe". Tooling for the lathe in terms of chucks and various cutting tools that are likely to easily cost you 1/3 again as much as the lathe even for the basics. And more than that if you opt for fancy tool posts and collet chucks. Plus you'll 'll need at least some minimal shop around the lathe with a fair number of hand and power tools plus a good bench and sturdy bench vise. This is not a "light duty" hobby to get into even for something as focused as "just barrel work".
Click to expand...

To be fair, you can learn all the things you need, to do the work, without taking any courses. Much of what is actually covered on the courses is pretty basic stuff, that assumes that teh student has no background info whatsoever. Often a safe bet, but someone who is actually interested and willing to do their own homework can get pretty far on some enthusiasm and if required, a friend to point you in the right direction.

One of the really good ways to learn, is to actually make the tools that you will use further on in the game, rather than buying them. Stuff like floating reamer holders, and various set-up aids. If you can put a name on it, like as not, you can find someone that has made it and posted pictures or even dimensioned plans on line somewhere. Buying tools makes darn good sense when you can make more money using the tool than it cost you. Making it will provide you with the skills and experience to move forward.
You have to choose the route that works best for your own situation.

I was interested from a Hobby perspective for many years, before I actually worked in the field. I learned things that were a great deal different from what someone who was working towards a job in a production environment would have learned, much of which is considered 'obsolete' information and skills, like tool grinding. No commercial shop will put the time in to that, generally, but it makes sense for a person who is going to spend a bunch of time setting up, for a very short time cutting, and then move on to something quite different!

As it happened, I ended up working in a mainly manual machine shop, pretty much a throwback to older times, and a lot of the things I had learned reading and doing Hobby related materials, served me in good stead.

Typically a lathe will come (if bought new) with enough equipment to at least start working. A tool post and tool holders may be the only real 'need'. A mill is a much more expensive outfit to set up.
After the tool post/holders are got, it pretty much can be used immediately, niceties like a collet chuck or collet closer, are convenient, but not actually required.

Measuring tools, a decent set of hand tools and a workbench of one sort or another can eat up funds too.

A person CAN spend rather a LOT of one's hard-earned on things that look like you need them, but which remain unused for years afterwards.
It is worth paying pretty close attention to the need vs. wants equation, and minding one's purchases for the first while.

Cheers
Trev
 
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