Lay It on The LINE 1 MOA

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JasonYuke

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Ok blast me slap me whatever to me..

Am I that ####ty at shooting, Maybe?
How in the Hell does every one get .5 MOA everyday, I shoot a lot 2xs a week and may different cartridges.

I only Have a few guns I can say yes 100% I can shoot .5s .7 ans .8s everytime out and under, if i can read the wind or what ever right?

So is it me? Am I missing something or is everyones equipment that much better and or reloading and shooting skills?
 
There is nothing like the internet to improve groups. Even better than the single group carried around in the wallet.
 
JasonYuke said:
Ok blast me slap me whatever to me..

Am I that s**tty at shooting, Maybe?
How in the Hell does every one get .5 MOA everyday, I shoot a lot 2xs a week and may different cartridges.

I only Have a few guns I can say yes 100% I can shoot .5s .7 ans .8s everytime out and under, if i can read the wind or what ever right?

So is it me? Am I missing something or is everyones equipment that much better and or reloading and shooting skills?
Click to expand...

I don't know if there are that many people here who can hold 0.5 MOA everyday, day in and day out.................unless your are a professonal with firearms.........;)

Shooting is a skill that will degrade without constant practice. To be consistantly proficient, you would have to shoot daily.Once or twice a week is really not enough.

Switching guns doesn't help consistency either. Take out the rifle you are having trouble with and shoot nothing but that rifle for a few months.If you get out twice a week over the period of 3 months, chances are you will see more consistent results.

I see that my own shooting isn't as consistent as it once was.At a time I used to get out 4 or 5 times a week, anywhere from 2 to 8 hours at the range per day.I was consistent and shooting good. However with work, other interests and family commitments, I am luck if I get out 3 or 4 times per month.:rolleyes:

I know my rifle will hold at least 0.5 MOA out to 600 meters IF I do my part ,am in my "zone", and practice a lot.

Have a buddy watch/video tape yourself shooting and see what he/the tape says..................sometimes you have bad little habits in your technique that you don't realise you are doing.

SKBY.
 
tiriaq said:
There is nothing like the internet to improve groups. Even better than the single group carried around in the wallet.
Click to expand...

Hey!!

Are you slagging Me??


2021ea03.jpg


It might not be a 'sniper rifle' but is 100 years old with iron sights...Nya!!
 
Klunk said:
Hey!!

Are you slagging Me??


2021ea03.jpg


It might not be a 'sniper rifle' but is 100 years old with iron sights...Nya!!
Click to expand...


Not at all. That is a very respectable group fired with an as issued service rifle. It is the sort of performance than could be expected from a quality service rifle in sound condition.
It is the reports of the SMLEs and No. 4s shooting 3/4moa with issue cordite ball that I wonder about.
As far as that goes, suppose you had a genuine 1/3 minute benchrest rifle. A good one, competitive in regional matches. How many average shooters do you think could fire groups consistantly under 3/4 minute with it?
 
Forget about the wind for a minute. How well your rifle shoots elevation wise will give you a better indication on how well your rifle/load/hold is doing. Even the best shooters get caught by the wind which opens the group width-wise. If you can't get to the range dry firing although boring will help.
 
JasonYuke said:
Ok blast me slap me whatever to me..

Am I that s**tty at shooting, Maybe?
How in the Hell does every one get .5 MOA everyday, I shoot a lot 2xs a week and may different cartridges.

I only Have a few guns I can say yes 100% I can shoot .5s .7 ans .8s everytime out and under, if i can read the wind or what ever right?

So is it me? Am I missing something or is everyones equipment that much better and or reloading and shooting skills?
Click to expand...

I don't believe for a minute that "everyone" is getting sub-MOA accuracy "everyday".

To be fair, if you have a rifle that is capable of producing sub-MOA accuracy, it should be able to do so with a high degree of consistency, not just produce a fluke group once in a blue moon. In my view, an accurate rifle should be able to shoot a sub-MOA group provided that the shooter is doing his part.

Most rifles can out-shoot the shooter, but accurate rifles can consistently shoot well. An inconsistent rifle will produce bigger groups even if the shooter is doing eveything right.

If you've got rifles that will shoot sub-MOA, they will not be the limiting factor in the group size. The shooter, through his form or technique (or lack of form and technique) will determine how small the group will be.

Owning a violin doesn't make you a virtuoso. Some guys will have an excellent rifle/scope combination but they just don't shoot very well.

I don't think that one should say that a rifle is incapable of MOA accuracy if it doesn't magically shoot sub-MOA every time a guy shoots a group with it.

As far as "sub-MOA no-matter-what" claims, I'd say call that as you see it.
 
In quoting Jeff Cooper

A Marksman is one who can make his rifle do what it was designed to do.

An Expert Marksman is one who can hit anything he can see under appropriate circumstances.

A Master Marksman is someone who can shoot up to his rifle.

A clear example of this is Benchrest rifles. These have to be some of the most precision peices of mechanical equipment made that are most times capable of shooting the perverbial .5moa all day. 90% of shooter error is removed from bench shooting because the only relation of shooter to rifle is the pad of the trigger finger on a 2 ounce trigger. The rifle slides back, guided on the rests and is then reset to repeat again. Tiny bughole groups are produced that measure in the 1/4 inch groups, never mind in the .5xx.

Take this rifle and put it in the hands of a very capable shooter and you'll quickly see that 1/4 inch groups are virtually impossible ....ALL DAY!! From time to time with consistant practice you'll get a few, but all day every day. Not too likely. Especially when you start stretching the distance.

As mentioned, have someone watch your technique or tape yourself. Observe how you squeeze the trigger. How you follow through each shot. Where does the rifle end up after recoil. How is your breathing.

Most people know if they've had a bad day at the range. Its quick and easy to blame it on the equipment. But most times its just that.....a bad day. If you've shot a few very good groups before, then you're most likely capable of doing it again. Practice makes great groups come with consistancy.
 
while my constant average is .9-1 MOA there have been a few times where the wind and weather has favoured me considerably and i have managed .5's
 
1. We are better shots than you...LOL...:)

2. Pick one rifle and master it, make it's feel and shouldering an extension of your arm.

3. Breathing, Breathing, Breathing.....

4. Breathing

5. Use match ammo and the same ammo

6. Consider other factors when measauring your performance
a) Air Temp
b) Humidity
c) Wind
d) daylight (this matters when sighting in distance)

7. Breathing
 
Many factory rifles WILL NOT shoot 1/2 MOA or better no matter what you do or who shoots it. The barrels simply aren't that consistent.

Also, shooting off a concrete bench with proper front and rear BR type rests will aid in shooting 1000% over unsupported shooting. Or with bipods, rolled up jackets, off the hood of your truck, etc.

The key to whether you are shooting well is are you shooting as well as the rifle/position/conditions allow.

If all the rifle/position/conditions will let you shoot is MOA and you do it or better, then you are shooting to the potential of the situation. Congrats.

If you have a true BR rig on proper set up that can shoot 1/4 Min and you shoot 1 under ideal conditions, then I would say you are the weak link.

Give your gear, ammo, optics, situation a realistic review. If you feel that everything should work to shoot better, then work on you.

If you feel that you are being limited, then get better gear AND work on you.

A few weeks away will make you rusty. As was said, shooting is a coordination sport that needs constant work.

Also, keep an eye on wind. ALL wind has an affect and it doesn't take much of an oops to go from a 1/2" group to a 3/4" one.
Jerry
 
Go to the range and see how many guys are shooting 1/2 moa all day. Likely only a few long range precision guys and thats it. Have a look at the targets in the trash can, no one is rushing home to post pics of those groups on the web.

You never see these .5moa shooters at the range because they are at home making up another bull#### story based on the fact they shot a .45" 3-shot group, once, 15 years ago.
 
I shoot .30 everytime I take my rifle out, but then again I only fire one shot....................
 
JasonYuke said:
Ok blast me slap me whatever to me..

Am I that s**tty at shooting, Maybe?
How in the Hell does every one get .5 MOA everyday, I shoot a lot 2xs a week and may different cartridges.

I only Have a few guns I can say yes 100% I can shoot .5s .7 ans .8s everytime out and under, if i can read the wind or what ever right?

So is it me? Am I missing something or is everyones equipment that much better and or reloading and shooting skills?
Click to expand...


Everone doesn't shoot .5 all day every day. But when they develope a load that works nicely or they happen across a gun that is a tad more accurate than the others they have, why, they post their good fortune here of course!

No one gets excited about 2-1/2" groups so they don't post them here.




Except Klunk.................:p;)
 
Jerry pretty much summed it up.

There are so many factors. The simplest thing for me to say would be to surf one of the other forums if it is OK with the moderators, Benchrest.com? The equipment MUST be top notch.

A worked over Rem 700 in the right caliber should be able to do it. However, it will not compete with the many guns using the various aftermarket actions out there. It could also be that the barrel on the gun is shooting to its max potential, which may not be very good.

The load has to be perfect. That can change daily according to temp, humidity, altitude, density.

The wind, being able to read it and shoot during the same condition. This requires wind flags.

The components you are using for a rest. Sandbags just don't cut it. The rest must be top notch along with the rear rest.

These are just a few of the factors. It all goes down to you have to compare apples to apples when the guys are talking about there guns and how accurate they are.

I hope some of this info helps.
 
In quoting Jeff Cooper

A Marksman is one who can make his rifle do what it was designed to do.

An Expert Marksman is one who can hit anything he can see under appropriate circumstances.

A Master Marksman is someone who can shoot up to his rifle.
Click to expand...

Jeff Cooper (RIP) once told our class that "All riflemen are chronic liars" I tend to believe that - especially with group sizes. My advice is to believe only what you actually see - for yourself in person. You'll be a lot happier with your rifles - trust me
 
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