LE no1mkiii into 45-70

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bry-an

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I've tried to search google, but only get one site with general info on a gun not for sale anymore. What would be involved and in canada is 45-70 easier to find or cheaper than .303 brit?


i know the LE can handle the pressure, its rated for 45000lbs. , I guess a new barrel and mag of some sort is all it really needs. maybe adjust headspace?
 
Question 1: WHY wreck a perfectly-decent rifle such as a .303 by desecrating it into a .45-70?

Question 2: WHAT is so great about the .45-70? It has two-thirds of the power of the .303 and about HALF the effective range. The ammo is impossible to get in many places. It is also expensive, running 1-1/2 to 2 times the price of .303.

Three-oh-three is an extremely versatile cartrdge. You can load it with 71-grain ACP slugs for close-in rabbits, 98-grain Nagant revolver slugs, 123-grain AK/SKS slugs, or your best hunting loads, the 150 Hornady and 180 Sierra flatbases. If you really need something for monster bear or REALLY big zombies, get some of the soft-point descendants of the original 215 RN.

Generally you can handload .303 for half the cost of reloading .45-70 and you get TWICE the effective range and at least 50% more stopping power at ANY range.

I'm going back to the sock closet now.
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I think he's just trying to get you folks goin', everyone in their right minds knows that the 45/70 is top of the heap and is heads above the .303 in killing power and I'm a fan of both.
 
bry-an said:
I've tried to search google, but only get one site with general info on a gun not for sale anymore. What would be involved and in canada is 45-70 easier to find or cheaper than .303 brit?


i know the LE can handle the pressure, its rated for 45000lbs. , I guess a new barrel and mag of some sort is all it really needs. maybe adjust headspace?
Click to expand...

:feedTroll: :feedTroll: :feedTroll:
 
There are lots of No1 and No4 rifles out there that have worn/rusty bores and have already been cut down as well as d&t. Go for it. Have fun. It won't come cheap though. By the time you're finished and assuming you want a finished, presentable rifle, it will cost as much as one of the new Marlin Guide Rifles or maybe even a Ruger #1 or a Browning Hi Wall.

$350+ for the barrel, another $200 to have it installed and cleaned up, the bolt should be fine but the bolt head will probably have to be refaced for the thicker rim of the 45/70 and the mag lips will need to be ground accordingly. The extractor will have to be ground down to fit over the .060 greater rim diameter of the 45-70 as well. So, add another $300 by the time everything is up and running acceptably. Then of course, don't forget the new stocks and add another $250.

Not a bad project if you do the work yourself but if you have to job it out, not very cost effective for little real gain.

Your call though. I saw one of the Gibbs rifles and put a couple of rounds through it. It was loaded to around 40,000 psi and around 2000fps through a 25 inch barrel. In all honesty, it kicked like the proverbial mule. Even with the make do flashhider/muzzle brake. If you have a fair tolerance for pain, go for it.

Now, there are some other very good coversions out there as well. Enfield P14s and Siamese Mausers. The Siamese Mausers are getting scarce. Most of them were pretty beat up and rusted. The bores were terrible and the stocks were about the same. The actions on the Siamese Mausers are wonderful and amongst the strongest Mauser actions out there. Seeing as they are made of the same steel as the Arisakas and built to a very high standard, they might even be just as strong as the Arisakas.

Sorry if I hijacked your OP but I thought you might like to see some of the other options available to you.
 
totally not hijacked... thats why I asked , to get opinions from people who know more than me. Honestly it was more of an idea than a plan. I will end with a guide gun one day , so I may as well wait. I would rather have to pay 2 bucks a round for 45-70 to know that when whacking around in the bush and coming face to face with something big, I dont have to aim super well. I have to get some reloading stuff for my 303 I already know that.



on a total side note this gun is fairly new to me, any ideas on the rear sight adjustments? it seems closest to shooter is 100meters, further from shooter is 2000meters? is there a windage adjust?

its a 1916 smle canadian issue, just in case it matters.
 
bry-an, don't ever get the idea that bullet size makes up for accuracy. In many situations, it will lose you a game animal or in a dangerous situation get you seriously hurt or killed.

That 303 is a very powerful rifle. In Africa, many elephants were culled with 220 grain Solids, fired out of both No1 and No4 rifles. Don't underestimate it, please.

Accuracy is far more important than bullet size and weight. Knowing your personal limitations is more important than anything else. Knowing your rifle's limitations are next on the list.

Practise, practise and more practise are extremely important. Find a mentor if you can. I know that sometimes it's extremely difficult. You would be surprised how many shooters out there are lousy shots. IMHO, I would like to see a system in place to prove accuracy competence with a hunting firearm to get a license or tag. Finland does this and you had best be able to place your shots accurately in the right place or you won't be allowed to hunt. I know this is extreme but it has a lot of merit.

Most shooters, just don't practise enough. You need to practise at different angles and ranges as much as possible. I would also suggest you get an extending monopod/walking stick or even a staff. They willl steady your aim by an incredible degree. I personally started useing an adjustable monopod many years ago. Unless, I'm in a supported blind, I always carry a monopod.
 
smellie said:
Question 1: WHY wreck a perfectly-decent rifle such as a .303 by desecrating it into a .45-70?

Question 2: WHAT is so great about the .45-70? It has two-thirds of the power of the .303 and about HALF the effective range. The ammo is impossible to get in many places. It is also expensive, running 1-1/2 to 2 times the price of .303.

Three-oh-three is an extremely versatile cartrdge. You can load it with 71-grain ACP slugs for close-in rabbits, 98-grain Nagant revolver slugs, 123-grain AK/SKS slugs, or your best hunting loads, the 150 Hornady and 180 Sierra flatbases. If you really need something for monster bear or REALLY big zombies, get some of the soft-point descendants of the original 215 RN.

Generally you can handload .303 for half the cost of reloading .45-70 and you get TWICE the effective range and at least 50% more stopping power at ANY range.

I'm going back to the sock closet now.
.
Click to expand...

What he said. Nothing wrong with the .45-70, but why mess with a good thing?
 
bry-an said:
its a 1916 smle canadian issue, just in case it matters.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many aneurysms this line just caused. Chop down the lumber and barrel with a hacksaw, eyeball the chamber reaming to something bigger with a drill bit, and toss one of those 20 dollar airgun scopes on there that cabellas sells. You don't want to ruin the originality of the gun by drilling and tapping, but JB weld does a great job of holding scopes on. Remember to give the stock a thorough going over with the belt sander when you're done to get rid of all those pesky cartouches! :stirthepot2:
 
The purists and the theorists at it again - never the twain shall meet.
Why make a 45/70 out of a Lee Enfield......"because you can."
No tears should be shed over building a new rifle out of a worn out Lee Enfield. There's a gazillion of them out there.
Nobody is likely to take a collector grade rifle to do the conversion.
Economically, it is only worth doing if you can do most of the work yourself.
 
saskbooknut said:
The purists and the theorists at it again - never the twain shall meet.
Why make a 45/70 out of a Lee Enfield......"because you can."
No tears should be shed over building a new rifle out of a worn out Lee Enfield. There's a gazillion of them out there.
Nobody is likely to take a collector grade rifle to do the conversion.Economically, it is only worth doing if you can do most of the work yourself.
Click to expand...

but not to many people know what a really collectable rifle is

I've bought several old enfields that were collectable for next to nothing because the owners did not know what they had. :)

I also got a Nagant M24 civil guard rifle for the price of a regular M91 because the gun shop didn't know the difference. :D

Its best to ask first before you start ;)
 
There are any number of bubba'd beyond hope Lee Enfields kicking around. Generally very inexpensive as well. These can be excellent candidates for projects like this.
I've never had anything to do with a .45-70 conversion. Given that the rim diameter of the cartridge is larger than the diameter of the bolthead, it must be very easy to tell if one is loaded.
Buying a barrel and paying to have it installed guarantees that the project will not be an inexpensive one, no matter how cheap the subject rifle was.
 
it is pretty nice that its a canadian issue, first year for that too... and all the numbers match...and it was free! but it was bubba'd long before i got it. cut down sporter stock, drilled for scope.... sigh. I want to make it original again but its expensive. I'll probably just keep it how it is , maybe toss a scope on for hunting. I kind of want to learn the iron sights better, and hunt like that. Don't want inhumane kills, so practice practice practice. Something about using a scope just seems like cheating.


no one answered my rear sight question.
 
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You give yourself good advice Bry-an. In the end, it's usually cheaper but not as much fun to buy a rifle complete and correct.

The idea of "sporterising" old milsurps started after WWI. Many fine machinists and craftsmen picked up the rifles cheaper than they could buy a new sporter action by a ludicrous amount. They built some beautiful sporters out of those old war horses.

One thing that doesn't happen anymore is governments disposing of modern weaponry. There are still a few warehouses in the world that are packed with old WWII firearms but not many. Not only that, they have been pretty much cherry picked. The actions on them are worth far more if left alone as a complete firearm than if it is stripped of everything and remachined into a sporter. It just isn't economically feasible anymore. The rifles are still just as sound as when they were packed away but the work required to make them acceptable as a sporter is prohibitive as well as costly for most.

Many surplus rifles were "sportered" and I use the term loosely to the point of near destruction during the 1950s to mid 1970s. They were cheap and plentiful. You could buy them at gas stations, hardware stores, implement dealers and even some grocery stores.

That all changed when companies like Remington, Winchester, Husquvarna etc retooled and started to mass produce complete sporter rifles that were scope ready and chambered in all of the popular cartridges, including 303Brit, 30-06, 308Win to name a few.

The huge support facilities that produced all of the accessories needed to sporterise the milsurps, quickly dried up. The reason for this was that it was almost impossible for any machinist or gunsmith to match the quality of the new sporters at a competitive price. Nothing has changed in the last 35+ years for exactly the same reason. The new rifles being produced today on CNC equipment are better and more accurate than ever before.

A good example of this are Savage rifles. After they retooled, they became an accuracy standard, used to compare the other makers rifles against. The fact that I don't particularly like Savage bolt rifles is completely meaningless. They are some of the most accurate and reliable rifles on the shelves today. They took over that position from Ruger about 10 years ago. If Ruger retools, they just might be able to get some of the market share they've lost back.

I never thought for a moment that you were thinking about chopping and hacking a complete No1 MkIII.
 
ya I hear ya about savage... i have a 17hmr by them, its crazy how it shoots. less than 1 inch groups at about 80 yds. I heard you can get custom guns from them as well...bonus. I need to get into handloads for my 303. one day I will have to go abroad and ship back some "bike parts" i find in a russian warehouse
 
If a certain company ever gets that wood and all thos spare parts onto the market, at REASONABLE prices, it could be worth restoring the old rifle to her former glory.

Sounds as if you have pretty much of an original rifle, so just wood and a few parts needed. It would sure look nice and they can be made to shoot VERY accurately with the full wood. Just watch out for The Damned Crack.

God made Plug Screws because He hates Bubba. I'm sure of that, although I may be wrong. Plug screws, though, ARE cheap.

Good luck with your Fine Old Toy.
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