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I Dont Care About You

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Got out to shoot my minty Irish No4 Mk2 today and have a few questions ... cause I'm a total LE virgin.:). Ammo was Hornady 150gr soft point ... cause that's all I have available at the moment.

Most concerning thing I found was the brass came out looking like it had been buffed with a pot scrubber. OK, I'm being a bit of a drama queen but the brass came out dull as if the chamber was unpolished. This made me take a close look at the chamber w a flashlight and the back 1/4" of the chamber looks smooth, shiny and steel coloured but the front 3/4 of the chamber has an obvious dull brass coloured hue to it. Are No4 chambers normally a bit rough? Is the bore and chamber chrome lined? I did not notice any issues extracting or feeding rounds. In fact cycling was quick and smooth.

I have built more than a few rifle barrels and so have the tooling and experience to polish the chamber. Just wondering if this is normal or is this why I got a nearly unfired Irish No4 for $1100?

Second issue:

The rear battle sight seems fine. Every round I fired plinked the plate at 120 yds. I'd say running the battle sight, rounds hit maybe 6" high but that would be reasonably normal for a 6 o'clock hold and a military rifle.

The problem started when I tried to use the target sight. Set at 200, the rounds were hitting way low. I had to run the sight up to about 450 yds to get it to hit POA at 120 yds. That seemed kinda weird to me. The 150gr ammo I am using should shoot flatter than military 174gr so really it should hit higher? Regardless, the battle sight was fine, so why in hell would the target sight be so far out of whack?

I do find the very narrow front sight a bit difficult to use, compared to wider front sights. One would think a thinner front sight would be better but I found it got lost in the clutter around the steel plate and was more difficult to align on the plate.

I'm quite impressed with the Mk2 trigger. Its very good for a military trigger. Zero creep and a very crisp letoff is excellent. Its not even overly heavy. I can totally work with that setup.
 
Chamber should be smooth and shiny all the way to the throat. If it has some rust it will make brass hard to extract. As for tangent sight, depending on the ammo and bullet weight it can have 300 to 400 yards zero or higher, so 450 is not out of the realm of possibility. Mine is spot on with 400 setting with 150gr. bullet going at 2200fps or so.
 
Referring to your previous post about engineers, you should be aware that you have the misfortune of owning a rifle that was designed by engineers - lots of them, they were called "boffins" at the time. Despite all the collective brainpower, they neglected to specify chrome plating in the bore or chamber. Then they stupidly decided to make the chambers oversize in case mud got in the chamber - who in their right mind plays in the mud with their guns? To top it off, the engineers decided to use mercury fulmanate in primers, along with cordite stick for powder. The net result was the potential for serious corrosion and erosion issues - which can cause a minty rifle to develop a sewer pipe chamber and bore in no time.
With oversize chambers, mild loads do not allow the brass to form fully to the chamber, often causing soot to blowback and coat the chamber walls. So what you are seeing could simply be carbon fouling. However, being an engineer, I cant expect you to believe me.:rolleyes:
 
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You don't want to see my 1898 lee speed clones chamber..haha. Thats hard on brass...worse with full power loads. Cast loads aren't to bad.
 
cosmic said:
Referring to your previous post about engineers, you should be aware that you have the misfortune of owning a rifle that was designed by engineers - lots of them, they were called "boffins" at the time. Despite all the collective brainpower, they neglected to specify chrome plating in the bore or chamber. Then they stupidly decided to make the chambers oversize in case mud got in the chamber - who in their right mind plays in the mud with their guns? To top it off, the engineers decided to use mercury fulmanate in primers, along with cordite stick for powder. The net result was the potential for serious corrosion and erosion issues - which can cause a minty rifle to develop a sewer pipe chamber and bore in no time.
With oversize chambers, mild loads do not allow the brass to form fully to the chamber, often causing soot to blowback and coat the chamber walls. So what you are seeing could simply be carbon fouling. However, being an engineer, I cant expect you to believe me.:rolleyes:
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Excellent retort. ;)

For sure these are not underpowered loads. There is no soot on the chamber portion of the cases.

I bought the rifle from a collector and the bolt face displaced little to no evidence of having ever been fired. There was some copper in the bore at the muzzle so it clearly had been fired but not very much. The bore is shiny and crisp.

The one thing I did notice is the previous owner had a penchant for storing his rifles with a dummy round in the chamber. Just wondering if this resulted in some kind of corrosion in the chamber?

Good to know the chamber / bore is not chrome lined. I'll try and give it a bit of a light polish and otherwise just accept it for what it is. For sure it does not display difficult extraction so the problem can't be that bad.
 
If it is extracting cleanly, leave it alone.

The battle sight had a nominal zero of 300y. The group should be high at 100y.

Front sights came in a large variety of different heights. With the adjustable sight set at 200y, the rifle would be fired at a zeroing target at 30y. An armourer would install the correct front sight to zero the rifle for elevation. Windage was corrected by moving the front sight as well. Of course, that was with Mk. VII ball.
 
tiriaq said:
If it is extracting cleanly, leave it alone.

The battle sight had a nominal zero of 300y. The group should be high at 100y.

Front sights came in a large variety of different heights. With the adjustable sight set at 200y, the rifle would be fired at a zeroing target at 30y. An armourer would install the correct front sight to zero the rifle for elevation. Windage was corrected by moving the front sight as well. Of course, that was with Mk. VII ball.
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The battle sight is maybe 6" high at 120 yds, which is fine as it allows a 6 o'clock hold.

I kinda get the mechanism of exchanging front sights to get the adjustable sight set but wouldn't that also affect the battle sight?

I am using 150gr Hornady ammo so not gonna get too involved in screwing with sights till I figure out a 174gr load to work with.

Speaking of adjusting sights, the front sight clearly requires a special tool (like an inverse blade screwdriver) to loosen it and allow windage adjustment. Where the hell do I get one of those?
 
I did some googling and came across some LE sight knowledge from the esteemed Peter Laidler himself. Apparently a tool is not required to adjust the front sight for windage.

I have been an Armourer since I started my apprenticeship in January 1963. When I say 'Armourer' I don't mean an enthusiastic amateur or one who has tinkered with a few No4's and the like, but I mean a REAL Armourer who's been there,and done that - you know the spiel......... I am also a graduate engineer so from that, you can take it that when I tell you something about a No4 rifle, having spent my formative years, on the bench, fixing literally - and I mean it - hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands of them, day in and day out AND range testing, accuracy testing and zeroing huge piles of them, you and the rest of this forum can take it that when I tell you about sights and zeroing, then it's the real McCoy.

Now come closer and listen as I don't want everyone to hear........... The issue tool to adjust the foresight, regardless of whether it has got a reverse headed keeper screw or not, is a complete waste of rations. Say that after me slowly..... 'A COMPLETE WASTE OF RATIONS' Good.

It was taught during your apprenticeship, together with the variations per turn by rote. But once you got out into the real world, it was left back in the workshop cupboard along with the other theoretical crap, while you learned from the more experienced Armourers, who had served from Monte Cassino to Korea how things were REALLY done.

There IS a place for the forked/reverse headed screwdriver and foresight cramp. You could give it to someone you don't like as a fishing weight or you could slip it into your range bag so that you will look like a bit of a wally (you know the saying, all the gear and no idea) if anyone peeks in.

Real Armourers as opposed to the all the gear and no idea queens just know that on a No4 rifle it's 'FORESIGHT INTO THE ERROR' So if your shots are sneaking over to the left at, say 100 yards, just a slight tweak of the foresight blade to the left with a brass drift and small hammer through the foresight protector will do the job. Oh yes, I almost forgot. A real Armourer will just KNOW from years and years of experience exactly hyow much to move the foresight over too.
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I Dont Care About You said:
The battle sight is maybe 6" high at 120 yds, which is fine as it allows a 6 o'clock hold.

I kinda get the mechanism of exchanging front sights to get the adjustable sight set but wouldn't that also affect the battle sight?

I am using 150gr Hornady ammo so not gonna get too involved in screwing with sights till I figure out a 174gr load to work with.

Speaking of adjusting sights, the front sight clearly requires a special tool (like an inverse blade screwdriver) to loosen it and allow windage adjustment. Where the hell do I get one of those?
Click to expand...

Go to your tool box and find a screwdriver with a good handle and a tip that is expendable. Hacksaw off the Phillips, Torx or Straight end. Mount the screwdriver upright in a vise, and with two blades on your hacksaw frame, cut a reverse slot. Measure it periodically on the rifle, and stop when it fits properly. You'll use it a handful of times - ever - but miss it when you can't find it in time of need.
 
More front sight nonsense. A bit more googling and I've come up with a couple of lists showing various front sizes and types.

My front sight is marked F .045 which near as I can figure is 1.045" over the bore. As my rifle seems to shoot pretty low, it would seem I may need a shorter front sight and I see a list showing four sight sizes shorter than the one I have.

The big question being, where the hell does one source a selection of front sights for an 88 y/o military rifle?
 
The people commenting on this probably have a collection of front sites, myself included. You actually have a higher front site. Most of mine have 0.015 or 0.025 marked sites. Most of my shooting is done with cast bullets so once my front site is centered I adjust my back up. With my load I just dial the rear up to 450 and adjust form there as I know it is going to be close. I probably have 20 front sites in my parts boxes. The F means made by Fazakerly.
 
Clearly I should have googled before posting. Turns out entire front sight sets are available on eBay from England and for not a terrible price. Would prob be nice to have all the heights below what I currently have.
 
Two patterns of sights and bases. Solid bases used a sight with a split dovetail; clamp type bases used a sight with a solid dovetail.
 
It will fit. Tightening the clamp on the solid dovetail might hold better than on a split dovetail, which can be compressed.
 
Yes, that would work; I've seen sights so modified.
You can also not use the clamp system and just hammer a sight into place.
 
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