Hello, I'm planning to start loading some black powder rounds for a Webley Mk1. I have some bullets .455" in diameter, which is .007" larger than the groove diameter in my barrel. I'm guessing that unlike jacketed bullets with smokeless powder (for which I have been advised to stay within .002" larger than groove diameter), soft lead bullets with black powder can be a bit larger. But is there a limit to how much larger I can safely go? I feel a bit suspicious about forcing a .455" bullet down a .448" bore, even if that is what the Webley was designed for.
Lead bullets: How big is too big?
- Thread starter john94
- Start date
I can’t give you an exact number but you do want to be at least a couple thousand over with lead, if not you stand a good chance of leading the barrel.The bullet has to be tight enough that the gasses stays behind the bullet and doesn’t push past it and cause leading. Use a good lube or powder coat! Did you slug the barrel to get the groove diameter? Not every barrel conforms to published specs.
What you describe about your Webley MK1 is more common than unusual.
Every one of the lovely Mk1 revolvers I've owned in the past has had a different bore diameter, same goes for the cylinder throats. One pistol had each cylinder throat a thou or so different all the way around.
My advice to you is to stick with LEAD HOLLOW BASE BULLETS, which were intended to make up for the discrepancies you describe.
It sounds like you're going to start loading your own ammo???
If so, get in touch with a member here that goes by the handle "jethunter" He casts some very good hollow base bullets for the 455 Webly. They are soft enough that they will obturate into the land on the 476 bores as well.
I prefer to use Black Powder in my reloads but if you're going to use smokeless, you will need to use a "filler" in the base of the bullet, to help it obturate properly into the lands.
When I cast my own, I fill the base with Bondo, autobody putty, then just wipe it even with the spatula.
Every one of the lovely Mk1 revolvers I've owned in the past has had a different bore diameter, same goes for the cylinder throats. One pistol had each cylinder throat a thou or so different all the way around.
My advice to you is to stick with LEAD HOLLOW BASE BULLETS, which were intended to make up for the discrepancies you describe.
It sounds like you're going to start loading your own ammo???
If so, get in touch with a member here that goes by the handle "jethunter" He casts some very good hollow base bullets for the 455 Webly. They are soft enough that they will obturate into the land on the 476 bores as well.
I prefer to use Black Powder in my reloads but if you're going to use smokeless, you will need to use a "filler" in the base of the bullet, to help it obturate properly into the lands.
When I cast my own, I fill the base with Bondo, autobody putty, then just wipe it even with the spatula.
It will depend on lead hardness and the amount of bearing lead on your bullet; narrow bands and more grooves being easier.
Note that high pressures under soft bullets can make them obturate "better" (deform) to the point of exceeding standard pressure for the caliber.
All of the MK1, and 2's that I've bore slugged (5 in total) have all been .451"~.452" as best I could measure. These were all 100% completely original unaltered examples (no shaved cylinders etc.) I simply used commercially available .45 cal .250 gr "cowboy" bullets that were sized .452". I got these from P&D in Edm. several years ago.
The cylinder fronts (if unaltered) are smaller than the Bore by several Thou, so even if you used a .455" bullet, it would get squeezed down before it hit the bore anyway. The most accurate mk1 I had fired, had the cylinder fronts opened up to .450" and used loads consisting of the aforementioned 250gr "Cowboy" bullets.
The cylinder fronts (if unaltered) are smaller than the Bore by several Thou, so even if you used a .455" bullet, it would get squeezed down before it hit the bore anyway. The most accurate mk1 I had fired, had the cylinder fronts opened up to .450" and used loads consisting of the aforementioned 250gr "Cowboy" bullets.
Got an Antique that has a tapered bbl.... 0.429 - 0.405 in 2 1/2"
You'll likely be just fine IMO
It would be a touch heavier so a little less smokeless powder. Or the weight difference and the pressure is so low it wouldnt make a difference. Start low work your way up.
Also your bullet is to big if you cant chamber the round. As long as there is neck clearence and the loaded ammo drops in the chamber it should be fine with soft lead.
Also your bullet is to big if you cant chamber the round. As long as there is neck clearence and the loaded ammo drops in the chamber it should be fine with soft lead.
Pure lead is amazingly plastic when your approach it right. I purchased Absolutely pure lead 'Chains' from an outfit in Calgary years back. 3 lead Discs about the size of soup bowls joined by a link ( like pieces of a model in way back years) about an inch in diameter. You throw the chain in a vice with one disc hanging out. Put a 24" pipewrench on it and try twisting it off. I disremember if it took more than three turns before it parted... but it was not less than for sure.
I knew lead was soft, but when you really see how soft it is... one feels a little better about shooting antiques. I've tried WW in a 41 LC...you can see the bullets striking a couple of feet to the side. They just don't bump up like PL.
If 455 Webley wants PL HB...better give it what it wants.
WW are always so tempting, free...right?
But you just can't beat Pure lead.
Jethunter is good folk, he'll do you a square deal.
I knew lead was soft, but when you really see how soft it is... one feels a little better about shooting antiques. I've tried WW in a 41 LC...you can see the bullets striking a couple of feet to the side. They just don't bump up like PL.
If 455 Webley wants PL HB...better give it what it wants.
WW are always so tempting, free...right?
But you just can't beat Pure lead.
Jethunter is good folk, he'll do you a square deal.
coyoteshooter
CGN Regular
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
i had one years back the first shot out of it was to see the dust fly on the pasture field hill 200 yds then i ran out there and caught it in a ball glove but it will be fun for sure don
I don't change it. I load black powder under my own cast bullets as well as those I believe came from Jethunter a few years ago. Excellent bullet by the way. They obturate properly into the grooves, without any leading issues, they have a blue colored lube on them. Black powder is at its best, when it's compressed and my loads are on the light side for my pistols.
I just do this to err on the side of caution. Both my RIC and MkI are in excellent condition and very tight all around. I don't load as hot as I could because they're fun to plink with and I just don't want to loosen them up with stiff loads.
Update: Here's my 6-round group from 15 metres, .455" bullets with 15 grains (by volume) of Triple Se7en. I guess the oversized bullet is fine! I'm not sure how accurate a Webley is supposed to be.
Id be more than happy with that at 10 lol
Try hollow base bullets, if you can find them. The bores on the older pistols varied and often the receivers are marked 455/476, which indicated they could handle both diameters.
There was a very good reason their original bullets were hollow based. That kept them accurate.
Check this out https://youtu.be/3SjIVHvGi10
There was a very good reason their original bullets were hollow based. That kept them accurate.
Check this out https://youtu.be/3SjIVHvGi10
