Lead vs Plated Bullets

[VICIOUS]

Powder coated are faster then lead-lubed bullets. Plated and jacketed will always be slower with the same powder load. Felt recoil will be almost the same due to powder load.
To get the same velocity with plated you drop the powder by a bunch for lead bullets.
Look at Lyman reloading book and study the loading for lead to jacket.

 

[B]

The OAL was set to match the crimping groove on the lead SWC. The seating die was not adjusted when switched over to running the Campro bullets. They did not have a crimping groove. SOA OAl was same fror both.

Exactly, so if the SWC are longer (they should be compared to a TC) there is less room in the case. Not sure why your Campro don't have a cannelure. Mine do for both 125 and 158 weights.

 

[VICIOUS]

CAMPRO has 9 MM or 38 super with no crimp grove 158 grain.

 

[SP641]

I come up with the same result with copper plated versus lead. Lead bullet always get better velocity with the same powder load. As an example, 3.1 gr of WIN 231 under a lead HBWC gets approximately the same velocity than 3.6 gr of WIN 231 with a copper plated HBWC.

 

[Ganderite]

I come up with the same result with copper plated versus lead. Lead bullet always get better velocity with the same powder load. As an example, 3.1 gr of WIN 231 under a lead HBWC gets approximately the same velocity than 3.6 gr of WIN 231 with a copper plated HBWC.

As it happens, I will be running 148HBWC tonight, 3.4g 231. I will load both lead and campro, same die settings, and compare velocity.

 

[porpoise]

I got my soft cast and copper plated 200 grain 44 40 bullets to both travel 1050 fps. It took 7.5 grains tinstar for lead, 9.3 grains tinstar for plated

 

[theshootist]

Is lead faster due to a lower coefficient of friction or because it's softer/more malleable? Something else?

I've often wondered about swapping a copper jacketed bullet's published load data with an equivalent weight of cast bullet (or PC'd).
My thoughts are that the cast bullet would generate lower pressures than the jacketed bullet over an equivalent charge of powder, thus would be safe To make the swap...

 

[VanMan]

setting up some 45acp loads for my S&W625 and thought I'd try 230gr Campro vs 230gr Missouri lead bullets. Same load, same COL, chrono'd them today using my LabRadar. I measured the Missouri bullets as 0.053" longer. So a smaller case volume which would result in slightly higher case pressure. That could be a small factor in the increase of speed of the Missouri bullets

 

[Ganderite]

Your results show a marked higher velocity for the lead bullet. This is what caught my attention when I made the first post. I have never given it any thought, but assumed velocity would be similar.

When I develop a load for a bullet, I test for accuracy. I often never bother checking velocity, so had not ever noticed the difference between lead and plated.

Today I tested 148 gr HWC loaded with 3.4gr 231, seated with the bullet protruding about 1/10 of an inch. The ammo came off the Dillon with no adjustments to anything.

5-shot averages
Campro plated 750fps
Speer lead 746 fps
DRG solid WC 770 fps


The plated bullet was slightly faster. ???

 

[VanMan]

I'm wondering if for the slower powder, the HBWC skirt thickness makes a difference? I've noticed that the lip of the Campro skirt is pretty thin compared to other HBWC bullets. In my testing I noticed the Campro to be significantly faster for a given charge of Bullseye then Berry's which has a thicker lip/skirt. My thought was that the Campro skirt expanded more easily to provide better sealing. The thicker Berry's skirt didn't expand as well so lots of gas blow-by. The Speer and Hornady skirts look to be thicker than the Campro as well. In my testing, they were 30-45 fps faster than Campro with the same charge of Bullseye, but that has a faster burn rate, so maybe was able to expand the lead skirts ok?

 

[old303]

...

When I develop a load for a bullet, I test for accuracy. I often never bother checking velocity, so had not ever noticed the difference between lead and plated.

Today I tested 148 gr HWC loaded with 3.4gr 231, seated with the bullet protruding about 1/10 of an inch. The ammo came off the Dillon with no adjustments to anything.

...

Is 231 the go-to powder for accuracy in that sort of round? I've always loaded pistol ammo for power factor, or minimal recoil, and it's always been "accurate enough" for the pistol games I've tried, but then tried loading rifle rounds for accuracy and was pleased with the results and got to thinking I should try the same with pistol ammo this winter. All the loading books give me charts about the different powders I could be using but which ones are best for accuracy is something they usually leave out. You seem to have a far better feel for this than I.

 

[Meroh]

Sliding Friction...

Coefficient of friction for copper is 1.0–1.1

Unlubricated Lead is 0.43

Lead that is lubricated will be lower.

While these are general values taken off of tables, this does explain it. Lead is slipperier than copper.

 

[Ganderite]

Is 231 the go-to powder for accuracy in that sort of round? I've always loaded pistol ammo for power factor, or minimal recoil, and it's always been "accurate enough" for the pistol games I've tried, but then tried loading rifle rounds for accuracy and was pleased with the results and got to thinking I should try the same with pistol ammo this winter. All the loading books give me charts about the different powders I could be using but which ones are best for accuracy is something they usually leave out. You seem to have a far better feel for this than I.

Some manuals list the powder(s) that gave the best accuracy. Accuracy pistol powders tend to be in the fast to medium fast range. Bullseye to VHT320 range. Titegroup, Ramshot Competition and 231 are powders I have used. I am using 231 right now because I have 16 pound of it. Cheap and meters well. Titegroup is the same.

 

[alpining]

interesting difference between 3" Ruger and 4" Smith, I expected it the other way around. Would a slight barrel diameter difference have caused this?

Tighter chamber, smaller cylinder gap, and barrel differences can all increase pressure and MV. Throating too?

 

[alpining]

Sliding Friction......While these are general values taken off of tables, this does explain it. Lead is slipperier than copper.

Maybe all of the difference, maybe part of it - As someone mentioned above, depending on bullet/bore fit, lead bullets can obturate to the bore better and get more velocity out of the same powder burn.

 

[old303]

Some manuals list the powder(s) that gave the best accuracy. Accuracy pistol powders tend to be in the fast to medium fast range. Bullseye to VHT320 range. Titegroup, Ramshot Competition and 231 are powders I have used. I am using 231 right now because I have 16 pound of it. Cheap and meters well. Titegroup is the same.

Thanks! 231 is somehow oddly tempting because the "grass is always greener" but I have a fair bit of Titegroup so next step would be to ladder-test it across its valid charge range.

 

[Meroh]

Some manuals list the powder(s) that gave the best accuracy. Accuracy pistol powders tend to be in the fast to medium fast range. Bullseye to VHT320 range. Titegroup, Ramshot Competition and 231 are powders I have used. I am using 231 right now because I have 16 pound of it. Cheap and meters well. Titegroup is the same.

I am using HP38, I believe it is the same powder as 231. Clean shooting too.

 

[Ganderite]

There are powder makers and there are powder sellers.

More than one seller will buy a powder from a maker and sell it under their name.

HP38 and 231 are the same powder from a single maker - St Marks in Florida.

 

[hatman1793]

Here’s another factor to consider:
Most powder measures are notoriously finicky. And all powders don’t measure or drop 100% consistently. So while you set up your powder measure to drop 3.4 grains of WW231, & re-test it occasionally, your powder measure will be mostly close to the desired 3.4 grains but not every time.
There are a myriad of factors that come into play when your reloader measures powder. So while you desire 3.4, sometimes your measure will drop 3.3 grains, or 3.2 grains, even 3.5 grains.
This is the main reason that reloaders making Major or Minor powder factors almost always load a little more powder over the PF minimum. Shooters could have just one reload tested that was slightly under the PF & be disqualified even though 99% of the rest of the batch meets the PF.

 

[alpining]

I see your point hatman, but if I'm not mistaken Ganderite has posted averages, and the average SHOULD be pretty close to, well, average. It would be hard to believe that variability in the powder drop could account for all of the unexpected noise in the data.