Learned a few new things today.

I have no experience with powder coated bullets so take this with a grain of salt. Using regular alox or newer hard lubed lead bullets in the 9mm has always been an adventure--the most consistent results and best accuracy in a variety of 9mms were with a hard cast bullet sized to .357 or slightly larger. The only issue with this was with some lots of brass the larger bullets would not chamber reliably--a bevel based bullet helped some here. It was important to make sure that the expander enlarged the case enough to seat the bullet without sizing it down and then a very slight taper crimp to straighten out the case mouth and facilitate feeding. I imagine that the later two points would apply to the powder coated bullets also.

Good luck with your quest.
 
44Bore said:
I have no experience with powder coated bullets so take this with a grain of salt. Using regular alox or newer hard lubed lead bullets in the 9mm has always been an adventure--the most consistent results and best accuracy in a variety of 9mms were with a hard cast bullet sized to .357 or slightly larger. The only issue with this was with some lots of brass the larger bullets would not chamber reliably--a bevel based bullet helped some here. It was important to make sure that the expander enlarged the case enough to seat the bullet without sizing it down and then a very slight taper crimp to straighten out the case mouth and facilitate feeding. I imagine that the later two points would apply to the powder coated bullets also.

Good luck with your quest.
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I am going to be checking some of the points you raise as soon as I get some bullets coated tonight.
 
Seat a couple bullets as you normally do and then pull them and remeasure them. 9mm cases tend to size the soft lead bullt s when seating them due to the case walls getting thicker lower down the cartridge.
 
Keep in mind that the temps advertised are all P.M.T. It is also quite difficult to get a toaster oven to the correct temperature not to mention different temperature from the front to the back of the oven. I rotate my tray part way through baking to try and ensure all boolits receive enough heat.
 
44Bore said:
I have no experience with powder coated bullets so take this with a grain of salt. Using regular alox or newer hard lubed lead bullets in the 9mm has always been an adventure--the most consistent results and best accuracy in a variety of 9mms were with a hard cast bullet sized to .357 or slightly larger. The only issue with this was with some lots of brass the larger bullets would not chamber reliably--a bevel based bullet helped some here. It was important to make sure that the expander enlarged the case enough to seat the bullet without sizing it down and then a very slight taper crimp to straighten out the case mouth and facilitate feeding. I imagine that the later two points would apply to the powder coated bullets also.

Good luck with your quest.
Click to expand...

I agree with you and powder coating makes it doubly so. PC increases the dia to differing degrees (depending on powder make & condition and method of application). I size all my coated bullets after coating just for the sake of repeatability in seating. Another thing I am very fortunate to have some machining tools as part of this hobby. Because of this I can cut a case mouth sizing plug in a few minutes to set case tension to whatever lead hardness I am using without distorting the bullet. If you are using commercial cast boolits in the 25Bhn range then they will expand the brass to fit them but I have a s#$% load of WW lead and no hardening alloy to add to it so I make my brass conform to my bullet hardness (around 8Bhn or so). I discovered the importance of this testing some PC boolits for the wife's 30-30. First test was "as cast" (.310) plus PC (now at .313) loaded into full length resized cases (.306 ex ball). The bullets seated very tight and required a fair push in the press so I measured the O.D. of the case mouth before and after seating, only 1 thou difference even tho I was seating a bullet .007 bigger then the expander. They shot a less than adequate group of 3-4 ". Next test I used same bullets only sized to .311 after coating and used my "custom" expander plug cut to .310, they still chambered easily and my group shrunk to 1.5 ".

If I may add, for anyone who has ever thought "geez I wish I had the machine to build this or that" I consider my machine tools as much an important part of this hobby as my guns... and a small "adequate for this part of the sport" set-up can be had for less than a good (or not so good) Single Shot rifle. I am blessed with a 1440 lathe that I use mostly but also have a small mini-lathe that would be completely adequate for small tooling such as we need for this sport. You don't need to be "Einstien" to be a hobby machinist neither, just the nerve to chuck something up and give"r a whirl. Trial & error worked for me. I get as much satisfaction out of building a set of dies for some obsolete cartridge, custom neck sizing dies as well as the aforementioned expander balls as I do out of the actual shooting.
 
I cast some more bullets and measure them, .358" out of the mold. I turned up the heat on my oven and made sure I had a good coating powder on the bullets and cured them for 15 mins. They were .360" - .361" on average after curing. Sized them with my .357" die which gave me .358" bullets. I opened up my case mouth more, seated the bullet and crimped to .380". Pulled several rounds and the bullet measures .357". I have to crimp to at least .380" or the cartridge does not pass the barrel test. We will see what happens tomorrow at the range.

I loaded and pulled a few the way I was set up before and the bullets were measuring .353".
 
f55 said:
This is turning out to be a long range visit.
Click to expand...

Ha ha! It was infact. Got some visiting in and a little impromptu cowboy action shooting!

I did test my loads. I only shot 20 rounds and am still seeing signs of leading. Not as much as before though. I am going to go back tomorrow and try it with some more rounds with the bullet sized to .357" and the crimp the same at .380".

I am also borrowing a lee hardness tester from a buddy to see what I've actually got.
 
I just read your other thread you linked to and think it might be your barrel in this gun, not a bullet problem. You said that your .38-.357 handles your PC bullets just fine and this barrel leads up with conventional soft lube as well. Two things I can suggest, one is to build a lapping rod and go to work with a lot of elbow grease and jewelers rouge...especially paying attention to the free bore/land start area and then make the bore shine like a new penny...Second option is to replace the gun or go back to plated slugs.
 
fingers284 said:
I just read your other thread you linked to and think it might be your barrel in this gun, not a bullet problem. You said that your .38-.357 handles your PC bullets just fine and this barrel leads up with conventional soft lube as well. Two things I can suggest, one is to build a lapping rod and go to work with a lot of elbow grease and jewelers rouge...especially paying attention to the free bore/land start area and then make the bore shine like a new penny...Second option is to replace the gun or go back to plated slugs.
Click to expand...

I was going to do some reading up on barrel lapping as I'm not at all familiar with it. It does shoot plated just fine. I may sell and get into a CZ Shadow, had my eye one one for some time.
 
I haven't done any serious lapping but have read a considerable amount on it and discussed the methods with others that have done it a time or two I know people that have changed mold dia and firelaped barrels.

Just a thought I had on this PC and lapping that may work and be very easy to do rather than manufacturing a purpose built lap as was previously required. I would take some PC bullets hot from the stove and while still hot and sticky I would either sprinkle a pinch of dry grinding compound or try rolling them in some so that the compound is embedded in the still soft powder coat. Now I would fire 50 or so of them at a very slow velocity just enough to get them to clear the bore ( you don't want them going fast enough that they will deposit/smear lead between the next bullet and the barrel metal, possibly just a mag primer might do the trick). I would even send the same bullets through again (trying to orientate the land grooves to a different spot). The second time tru they should cut less and polish to a finer degree.

Now see if there is any improvement with regular speed ammo that was giving a problem before
 
fingers284 said:
I agree with you and powder coating makes it doubly so. PC increases the dia to differing degrees (depending on powder make & condition and method of application). I size all my coated bullets after coating just for the sake of repeatability in seating. Another thing I am very fortunate to have some machining tools as part of this hobby. Because of this I can cut a case mouth sizing plug in a few minutes to set case tension to whatever lead hardness I am using without distorting the bullet. If you are using commercial cast boolits in the 25Bhn range then they will expand the brass to fit them but I have a s#$% load of WW lead and no hardening alloy to add to it so I make my brass conform to my bullet hardness (around 8Bhn or so). I discovered the importance of this testing some PC boolits for the wife's 30-30. First test was "as cast" (.310) plus PC (now at .313) loaded into full length resized cases (.306 ex ball). The bullets seated very tight and required a fair push in the press so I measured the O.D. of the case mouth before and after seating, only 1 thou difference even tho I was seating a bullet .007 bigger then the expander. They shot a less than adequate group of 3-4 ". Next test I used same bullets only sized to .311 after coating and used my "custom" expander plug cut to .310, they still chambered easily and my group shrunk to 1.5 ".

If I may add, for anyone who has ever thought "geez I wish I had the machine to build this or that" I consider my machine tools as much an important part of this hobby as my guns... and a small "adequate for this part of the sport" set-up can be had for less than a good (or not so good) Single Shot rifle. I am blessed with a 1440 lathe that I use mostly but also have a small mini-lathe that would be completely adequate for small tooling such as we need for this sport. You don't need to be "Einstien" to be a hobby machinist neither, just the nerve to chuck something up and give"r a whirl. Trial & error worked for me. I get as much satisfaction out of building a set of dies for some obsolete cartridge, custom neck sizing dies as well as the aforementioned expander balls as I do out of the actual shooting.
Click to expand...

If you are casting straight wheelweights you can increase the hardness by casting your bullet with the temperature of the lead on the hotter side and dropping the bullets straight out of the mould into a 5 gallon pail half or three quarters full of cold water--be very careful not to let water splash in to your mould blocks or the lead pot or very bad things will happen.

this is what we used to do with the bullets we cast for metallic silhouette shooting--.357, .41 and .44 caliber--also used it with 9mm and 45 acp with good results.
 
44Bore said:
If you are casting straight wheelweights you can increase the hardness by casting your bullet with the temperature of the lead on the hotter side and dropping the bullets straight out of the mould into a 5 gallon pail half or three quarters full of cold water--be very careful not to let water splash in to your mould blocks or the lead pot or very bad things will happen.

this is what we used to do with the bullets we cast for metallic silhouette shooting--.357, .41 and .44 caliber--also used it with 9mm and 45 acp with good results.
Click to expand...
Water dropping them will harden them up a bit but the baking after powder coating will anneal them right back to base hardness. You can heat treat them after curing the powder coat however. An hour @ 450 and then dump them straight into ice water. Doesn't hurt the PX at all in my experience.
 
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