Lee .500 S&W die, Bad?--UPDATE--problem identified, die is bad POST# 25

.Ben

.Ben

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just tried to Reload .500 S&W for the first time with a lee die set and after a very frustrating hour of bullets being seated way to deep and constant adjustments to the bullet seating depth which seemingly had no relevance to actual seated depth of the bullets I finally discovered a problem with the die set. the Plug that seats the bullets is very loose in the body of the die. also the die is threaded on the inside (for the bullet seating depth adjustment knob) very deep into the die so that the plug binds up in the threads and causes the bullets to push into the case way before the plug contacts the adjustment knob at the top. this is why I was getting wildly varying seating depths even when I was trying to adjust the knob and getting different results every time. the plug would bind up in a different spot each time or sometimes act properly even with the plug all the way down binding still occurs and its not even close to where it would apply a roll crimp which I need the die to do.

can anyone think of anything im missing? im newer to reloading but not completely new and ive set up many dies before and never seen this issue before. my lee 9mm die the plug slides freely through the die. the .500 die if you push the plug in it tries to twist in the body of the die and binds up into the threads. im not sure why there's threads that deep in the first place?

any help appreciated but I think this is a manufacturing flaw with an Early .500 die set.:confused:
 
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Bitumen said:
Lee dies are junk. Throw away and buy Redding and all will be good.
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normally I would defend Lee dies since I haven't had an issue with any other caliber ive used them in (9mm, 30-30)

But, this time I cant seem to find any cause of this that's not a manufacturing error.
 
.Ben said:
normally I would defend Lee dies since I haven't had an issue with any other caliber ive used them in (9mm, 30-30)

But, this time I cant seem to find any cause of this that's not a manufacturing error.
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Pics would help a lot but have you tried backing the die body out further and screwing the seating stem in further so that the seating plug isn't contacting the internal die threads?
 
ted_dent said:
Pics would help a lot but have you tried backing the die body out further and screwing the seating stem in further so that the seating plug isn't contacting the internal die threads?
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Yes. the threads go so far down the inside of the die this is impossible, especially considering the case needs to go into the die a certain amount in order to crimp.

the top of the plug is binding even at the very bottom of its travel anyhow.
 
Have you completely disassembled the die yet? Does it look like there are any scratches or gouges on the seating plug/stem?

Try putting some oil/lube on the threads of the seating adjustment, it should make things smoother.

What style of bullet are you using?
 
Spawn-Inc said:
Have you completely disassembled the die yet? Does it look like there are any scratches or gouges on the seating plug/stem?

Try putting some oil/lube on the threads of the seating adjustment, it should make things smoother.

What style of bullet are you using?
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yes disassembled, the plug has rough edges where its grinding against the threads.

tried lubing it didn't help much/at all

the die will work if as your seating a bullet you giggle the handle and tap on the die with a screwdriver handle or similar and the tapping allows the plug to slip past where it binds up and stop at the adjustment knob like its supposed too.
 
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I would take pictures and email Lee and they should replace it, then I would get some 400 grit sandpaper and smooth it out.
 
I use Lee dies for my 500 S&W without issues -I have several dozen sets of other Lee dies and have never seen anything like this. If it's not incorrect setup and not an unusual bullet type (e.g. custom cast with wide meplat), based on what you've said, it sounds like it must be a manufacturing defect.
 
Use your belt sander/file/lathe/chamfer tool to put a bit of a chamfer on the back edge of the plug. Not a lot of work to do, and for the money you save on the dies, having to mess around with one once in a while is not a bad trade off.
 
.Ben

Your using a pistol die set to seat rifle type bullets with a plastic tip, the plastic tip is making contact with the seating plug "first" and compressing. The plastic tip on the bullet is the problem, the directions state if you have seating problems to send them a bullet and they will make a custom seating plug.

Again, the plastic tip of the bullet is the first thing that contacts the inside of the seating plug and is compressed during seating causing the seating depth to vary.

If you were loading the Hornady 350 gr. XTP hollow point bullet your problem would go away. You have a generic shaped seater plug and your using a bullet shape that will require a modified seater plug.

This very same problem can happen with rifle dies and plastic tip bullets, and also pistol dies depending on the shape of the bullet. Meaning pistol bullets that do not have plastic tips.
 
*MALICE* said:
....in almost all cases......like, for example, the guy in a another thread who has the Redding die that won't seat his bullet deep enough.......
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You are correct Malice all products have there issues. I may be wrong here but I seem to recall reading more posts about problems with Lee products then any other ones. There has to a reason why they are so much cheaper then the others are.

Graydog
 
graydog said:
I hate to be the one to say it but you get what you pay for in almost all cases.

Graydog
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Like my set of RCBS .223 dies that are complete junk. Go figure I bought another dies set and it works flawless. Sounds like there could have been a manufacturing defect that got through. Contact LEE and send them pictures so they can see what is going on with the bullet and cases/setup. Also using the wrong bullet type with the seating plug can cause issues, as has been mentioned.
 
graydog said:
You are correct Malice all products have there issues. I may be wrong here but I seem to recall reading more posts about problems with Lee products then any other ones. There has to a reason why they are so much cheaper then the others are.

Graydog
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It seems to be a toss-up between Lee and RCBS for die issues, although they are both probably the two most common die brands. Hornady, Lyman, and Redding have their issues too. Never had an issue with Dillon dies so far.

Most problems with (any) set are usually either operator error or using it for something 'non-standard'.

That being said, the majority of die issues I have had have been with RCBS. They look prettier than Lee but I would say they are about equal in regards to actual quality. I used to make dies for a living so that's just my (professional) opinion.
 
bigedp51 said:
.Ben

Your using a pistol die set to seat rifle type bullets with a plastic tip, the plastic tip is making contact with the seating plug "first" and compressing. The plastic tip on the bullet is the problem, the directions state if you have seating problems to send them a bullet and they will make a custom seating plug.

Again, the plastic tip of the bullet is the first thing that contacts the inside of the seating plug and is compressed during seating causing the seating depth to vary.

If you were loading the Hornady 350 gr. XTP hollow point bullet your problem would go away. You have a generic shaped seater plug and your using a bullet shape that will require a modified seater plug.

This very same problem can happen with rifle dies and plastic tip bullets, and also pistol dies depending on the shape of the bullet. Meaning pistol bullets that do not have plastic tips.
Click to expand...

as an add-on to this post, if you have a drill press (and you're handy), you could try drilling a hole through the seating plug to allow the tip of the bullet not to bottom out
 
I just went through a similar problem with a four die set of Lee 9mm pistol dies, I was having problems with seating depth with Remington 115 grain FMJ bullets. I got angry and stopped thinking and went out and bought a Hornady die set and had the same problem with their bowl shaped seater plug.

The problem after I went back into the "thinking" mode was the inconstant ogive shaped curve of these cheaper bullets. The Hornady dies came with two seater plugs, one cup shaped and one flat blunt seater plug. The flat faced Hornady seater plug fit the Lee die perfectly and the seating depth and non-thinking problem went away.

I spent half my working career in Quality Control as an Inspector on aircraft and here is the first thing they taught us in school.

97% of all errors are human errors and only 3% are mechanical failures.

I have Redding dies, Forster dies, RCBS dies and Lee dies, they all work and they all have their little quirks.
The majority of these little problems can be solved by reading the die instructions and staying in the.......... "thinking mode".

Bottom line, for the cost of what you pay the Lee dies can not be beat and are the best buy.

P.S. If I want to kill something with a oversized hand cannon, I do it in the back yard with less heat and noise. :evil:

 
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