Lee Dipper Set Inconsistent Weights

driller212

driller212

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Hey guys,

In an effort to speed up reloading on the cheap I got some lee powder dippers. I was hoping that I could overfill the dipper, swipe it with a credit card and end up with a reasonably consistent measure. With the 3.1cc and H4895 powder (powder is a few years old at least), I get anywhere from 44.1 to 41.7gr on a scale that I know to be reliable, which obviously just doesn't make sense with me doing everything very consistently. I'm kind of wondering if my powder has differing amounts of water absorption from the atmosphere, which is throwing off each scoop I do, but other than that, I can't seem to think of anything that could be causing this large of a discrepancy. Any thoughts? According to the chart it should be measuring around 42.6gr.

I've been doing precision shooting using this same powder and getting good results just using the scale as well... Very confusing.

Any help is appreciated!
 
Not too much to be confused over. With each scoop, actual weight will most likely vary a bit. If a person could manage to scoop with exactly the same action every time, the variation wouldn't be much. Many of us started reloading with a Lee Loader kit. I started with a 30-30 kit, and loaded for a few years, but didn't actually load a great number.

I still use Lee dippers, but only to dump powder into a digital scale. Easy solution - continue using a scale.
 
kjohn said:
Not too much to be confused over. With each scoop, actual weight will most likely vary a bit. If a person could manage to scoop with exactly the same action every time, the variation wouldn't be much. Many of us started reloading with a Lee Loader kit. I started with a 30-30 kit, and loaded for a few years, but didn't actually load a great number.

I still use Lee dippers, but only to dump powder into a digital scale. Easy solution - continue using a scale.
Click to expand...

I guess my dream of eliminating a scale from the equation will never come to fruition :(

Thanks for your input.
 
4895 is a stick or kernel (or whatever its called) type of powder, I always think of it as tiny pieces of firewood in a pile. The weight of the pile vs its size will depend on how the individual pieces are sitting on each other, just so your dipper. Black powder is like that, 2F more so than 3F and BP is worse as it has irregularly shaped and sized pieces. I prepare my powder charges ahead of time in brass cases that are trimmed exactly the same. Kind of like your Lee dippers. Trick is to fill it and agitate it and fill it some more and agitate it before you level it off. My brass cases have a matching case trimmed to be a cap so I can fill them and throw them into my shooting bag. I've never weighed them but at 50 yds can repeatedly hit the pop cans. Good enough for the girls I go out with.
 
Dippers are only good for getting within a few grains of the target weight with extruded powder, they will be more accurate with ball powder but still not real close.
For any kind of high production you need a powder measure. I've had an old Lyman for the last 30 years and once it's set up I can charge 50 cases in a loading block in 2 or 3 minutes and it will throw within a couple of tenths of a grain on every charge. Visually check to make sure every case is filled approximately the same amount and your good to start seating bullets. For ultimate accuracy in throw weights I scale each load.
 
kjohn said:
Not too much to be confused over. With each scoop, actual weight will most likely vary a bit. If a person could manage to scoop with exactly the same action every time, the variation wouldn't be much. Many of us started reloading with a Lee Loader kit. I started with a 30-30 kit, and loaded for a few years, but didn't actually load a great number.

I still use Lee dippers, but only to dump powder into a digital scale. Easy solution - continue using a scale.
Click to expand...

^This^ 👍

I use the dippers too, it's a cheap alternative to using a powder measure since I know my OCD won't let me NOT scale every charge anyway.
I simply use the dipper that gets me just below the desired charge weight and then trickle up, it may be slightly heaped or not quite full to do that.
Most powder measures don't work well with cylindrical powder, it wants to jam and then tries to shear the sticks of powder.
I'd sooner have the simplicity of dipping a scoop of powder, dump it in the scale pan, then trickle up to the charge weight I want. That is usually arrived at within a single kernel of stick powder.
It takes a few seconds longer, but time isn't a big deal for me. I reload to relax and spend time in my chosen hobby, not dash through the process.
On the flip side, I load shotgun using a MEC 600 with volumetric powder and shot bushings. My powder charges vary about 0.3-0.4 gr from drop to drop. That doesn't amount to a hill of beans in a shotgun load, the clays really can't tell the difference.
Loading rifle ammo for long range shooting is a totally different ball of wax, obviously.
Each to their own.
 
You might try not scooping. Push the dipper into the powder, fill, lift & card. Practice
doing it like this & you might surprise yourself how accurate dipping can be.
 
Push the measure straight down and let it fill itself. Lift straight up and card off.

Or, shoot a couple 10 shot groups with dipped loads versus weighed loads. Don't be too horrified if you can't tell the difference until range gets awful long, if at all.
 
As has been touched on by others here, the problem is with your powder choice. A ball or flake powder will scoop measure far more consistent than any stick powder...but there is a sort of a fix that will make your scoops more consistent...and I know a couple of guys that do this, they make a trip to a local Adult shop and buy a small vibrator that they drop into the powder reservoir. Keeps everything settled in as small a place as can be. You could touch your scoop to the vibrator at every scoop to settle the sticks....
 
If you switch to a ball powder, like BLC2 or 748, you will find that a dipper is more consistent. Good enough for 300 yards for anything except serious target shooting.

Post an ad on EE for a WTB powder thrower. Lot's of us have extras.
 
OP, there are a few good threads here about using dippers, and some interesting DIY custom dippers if you ever get that far. Use the term "dipper" in this side of the forum and dig around a bit.

I've tried different methods and powders and combinations and have arrived at the point that offers have offered here. I use dippers for load development, anything in quantity 20 or more the thrower comes out. As others have mentioned, if accuracy at distance is needed then trickle up on a scale.

My thoughts were to approach a point at which I could leave the scale at home and "dip" at the range with simple things like the lee loader making reasonably accurate rounds. Why?...just because I'd like to try.

There's a couple of interesting designs on "custom" dippers that I find too cool to ignore.:cool:

from previous I can't recall what you are using for a scale, but I would suggest a magnetic dampening scale of some kind if you aren't using or don't have one. The Lee scale in the kit works but other offerings seem to register at half the time or less. My best investment for returns at the range and in the field is a RBS scale mechanical scale. I use it today because I too am on a budget and for the volume my family shoots, money is needed elsewhere. As others have suggested powder throwers and affordable mechanical scales show up in the EE form.

Regards
Ronr
 
Hell...........I started out with a cereal bowl and a spoon loading IMR 4831 in a .270 Win. Also had a RCBS scale but no powder dribbler.Made 1/2 MOA ammo and killed a lot of deer and moose till I got a little more equipment.
 
Dogleg said:
Push the measure straight down and let it fill itself. Lift straight up and card off.

Or, shoot a couple 10 shot groups with dipped loads versus weighed loads. Don't be too horrified if you can't tell the difference until range gets awful long, if at all.
Click to expand...

This is the technique I used to use as a poor college student with only a hand press, couple sets of dies, and a powder measure kit. Did charge weight vary some? Most likely yes. But most loads I made were quite accurate.

I’m pretty sure all benchrest ammo is loaded with powder throwers, as is factory ammo, shotgun ammo and anything loaded on a progressive. The beauty of loads that are accurate, but that also have charges of varying weights is that they are inherently more accurate, ie if 42.1, 42.3, 42.6 all fire into a 3/4”” group or whatever. The load will be inherently more accurate than a load that only performs with precisely weighted charges where all rounds are exactly 42.2 and any deviation produces inaccuracies. The reality is that generally, in my experience, cartridges larger in capacity than say 308 based are unaffected by variations of.2-.5gr. Smaller rounds like .223 or even more so .17 Hornet etc are much more critical to keep charge weight precision, as variations have greater affect on pressures.
 
I used the lee dippers with a trickler and mechanical scale for years. A few months ago I picked up an electronic powder measure. It really speeds up the process and accurately weighs all types of powders. There are two downsides to it though, the first one being the price. The second is that it is pretty time consuming to empty the powder and switch to another (simply turning the unit upside down to empty it would be quick, but Lyman says this can damage the load cell and ruin the unit). It works great for volume loading, but if I want to load only a few, I still use the dippers, scale and trickler.

Jim
 
driller212 said:
Hey guys,

In an effort to speed up reloading on the cheap I got some lee powder dippers. I was hoping that I could overfill the dipper, swipe it with a credit card and end up with a reasonably consistent measure. With the 3.1cc and H4895 powder (powder is a few years old at least), I get anywhere from 44.1 to 41.7gr on a scale that I know to be reliable, which obviously just doesn't make sense with me doing everything very consistently. I'm kind of wondering if my powder has differing amounts of water absorption from the atmosphere, which is throwing off each scoop I do, but other than that, I can't seem to think of anything that could be causing this large of a discrepancy. Any thoughts? According to the chart it should be measuring around 42.6gr.

I've been doing precision shooting using this same powder and getting good results just using the scale as well... Very confusing.

Any help is appreciated!
Click to expand...

For my 308 fmj plinking loads I use the scoop that came with Lee Classic Loader. My technique is scoop and swipe level with my finger with IMR 3031. I range any where from 41 to 42 gr.

For my precision hunting rounds I just weight each scoop with a digital scale of 42gr. If I need more I just use my trickler if I need less I just scoop out a few granular.
 
Ganderite said:
If you switch to a ball powder, like BLC2 or 748, you will find that a dipper is more consistent. Good enough for 300 yards for anything except serious target shooting.

Post an ad on EE for a WTB powder thrower. Lot's of us have extras.
Click to expand...

What Ganderite said. Likewise for Pistol; flake powder is going to be far less consistent than ball or short extruded like VV N320. I have an old Lyman powder measure; I use a scale to set it up, and with .223 it is consistent enough to shoot 1/2 -3/4" groups at 100 yards; while American Eagle gives me 4".
 
I found a consistent method but it'll always throw heavier charges than the listed value.

I scoop an overflowing amount of powder and then tap it with my finger until it settles. Then I re-scoop with that dipper again and keep tapping till it levels off. The Lee manual says explicitly never to do this. I find I can usually get +/- 0.5% (so +/- 0.2gr on a 40gr charge) using this method. You need to make your own charts with a scale though as the data provided by Lee will always be low. I found it would scoop anywhere from 5-10% above what the Lee documents say. This works for me with stick, flake, and ball powders. Ball powders are often within an even smaller margin.

When I was shooting mostly iron sights on milsurps it was impossible to tell the difference between this method and a digital scale with 0.1gr resolution. With a good scoped rifle I got enough fliers at 100yds to be discouraging. Picked up an electric auto powder dispenser and haven't looked back.
 
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