Lee Enfield # 7 and #9 Bayonette

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ianwd

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Im not really a Bayonete collector Per-se but once in a while ill stumble across something i like ,Today i picked up a #7 and a #9 . i got the pair for a good price sad part is the #7 has been sharpened at one point , but not overly so . also have a cruciform and Wilkinson 1907
the rifles look so much nicer with the pointy thing on the end
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I've always found the collectors aversion to sharpened bayonets to be a bit. silly. Here's how it works. In peace time, bayonets aren't sharpened as they are used for drill and practice. So, a safety concern. When going into battle, the boys sharpened them to a fine edge. Especially in WW! as they were still using the longer bayonets as a primary weapon on patrols. I can understand not sharpening one now but if it had been sharpened while in service, that would be part of it's history.
 
points said:
I've always found the collectors aversion to sharpened bayonets to be a bit. silly. Here's how it works. In peace time, bayonets aren't sharpened as they are used for drill and practice. So, a safety concern. When going into battle, the boys sharpened them to a fine edge. Especially in WW! as they were still using the longer bayonets as a primary weapon on patrols. I can understand not sharpening one now but if it had been sharpened while in service, that would be part of it's history.
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Prove to me it was sharpened in service rather than by someone in there garage. The reality is you can't verify which is which. Bayonets aren't meant to be sharpened, they aren't cutting tools, they are stabbing tools. There are a few documented forces who sharpened bayonets (particularly the Aussies) but for the most part they weren't sharpened unless it was done by some overzealous troop (and the majority wouldn't bother doing something like that).
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Prove to me it was sharpened in service rather than by someone in there garage. The reality is you can't verify which is which. Bayonets aren't meant to be sharpened, they aren't cutting tools, they are stabbing tools. There are a few documented forces who sharpened bayonets (particularly the Aussies) but for the most part they weren't sharpened unless it was done by some overzealous troop (and the majority wouldn't bother doing something like that).
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I guess my only answer would be that soldiers in the field would use their bayonet as a utility knife as troops are rarely issued with knives of any sort. (you can look that up). It is interesting that the spike bayonet was replaced by a blade bayonet in most quarters. Now, why have a blade shaped like a knife if it shouldn't be used like a knife? The question is not whether or not it was allowed but was it done.
You are correct that there is no way to tell if it was sharpened by a soldier in the field or by some guy in his shop.
 
points said:
It is interesting that the spike bayonet was replaced by a blade bayonet in most quarters. Now, why have a blade shaped like a knife if it shouldn't be used like a knife?
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Honestly it is just what the fashion of the day is. Spike bayonets were generally replaced with larger blade bayonets for the intimidation factor/look cool factor. Some nations then went back to the Spike simply to do with ease of manufacturing and you didn't need it for anything other than putting a hole in something.

Bayonets (at least modern ones) are generally used for pretty much anything other than stabbing. They are a utility item that can be used for a variety of odd jobs. For example they can be used to prod minefields in a pinch, search for triplines by holding it out infront of you, cut wire, look good on parade, and in the case of the earlier FN C1 bayonets they were used to help set up Constantine wire (the new C7 bayonets are too weak for that). The reason why they are knife shaped is simply the style (as well as the wire cutting advantage). Honestly I believe a knife bayonet looks more intimidating than a spike bayonet and with the ease which things can be produced at the moment, there is no need for a simplified pattern (as well as the fact there is no pressing need for a ton of bayonets to be produced as well).
 
I know we are a bit off topic here but it is interesting. When I was in, we had the bayonet for the FN C1. While serving with the Airborne, we were issued with a jump knife which was to be kept razor sharp. Oddly, this was not authorised military issue. It was only a unit level issue. When the C7 came out (after my time) It was originally to be issued without a bayonet. It was then realized that a soldier then didn't have a knife. But, if you have an unsharpend bayonet, then you still don't have a knife.
I was an armourer and no, you were not allowed to sharpen your bayonet. Damned silly if you ask me.
 
points said:
I know we are a bit off topic here but it is interesting. When I was in, we had the bayonet for the FN C1. While serving with the Airborne, we were issued with a jump knife which was to be kept razor sharp. Oddly, this was not authorised military issue. It was only a unit level issue. When the C7 came out (after my time) It was originally to be issued without a bayonet. It was then realized that a soldier then didn't have a knife. But, if you have an unsharpend bayonet, then you still don't have a knife.
I was an armourer and no, you were not allowed to sharpen your bayonet. Damned silly if you ask me.
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We now have the Gerber multi-tool if you need a knife (and other things like plyers etc., actually required for maintaining your C7). I do know quite a few people who do carry there own personal knives, that being said I have never had a issue using the Gerber (within its limits, it is still a multi-tool and as such you can't expect it to do everything). A jump knife makes tons of sense just for the concept of having to cut your parachutes lines if you become entangled in a tree or something of that nature. Its much like how the Navy insists on seamen carrying a knife on them for cutting the lines if they get entangled in them. Personally I refused unless they issued me a knife and since they refused to do so, I refused to go buy one for myself.

Currently it depends on your unit on how the bayonets are issued. My personal unit I rarely see the bayonets other than to take stock of them every couple months or for the odd parade. The amount of people I have seen hurt from sharpened bayonets though is actually extremely high considering how rarely we use them. I have seen about 6 good gashes from using the bayonets on parade, and one really good one from a idiot trying to sharpen one (he didn't have a clue what he was doing). Personally I hate the concept of sharpening them, it doesn't really bring you much gain (they are usually pretty crappy knives anyways), and it doesn't help with any of its other jobs (stabbing, wire cutting etc.).
 
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