Lee-Enfield No. 1, 4 and 5 rifles - Controlled Round Feed or Push Round Feed action ?

[Snowy Owl]

Question for the experts here :

For I don't know for how many years, I have read on different forums that the Lee-Enfield No.1, 4 and 5 rifles have Controlled Round Feed actions - well, most of the time.

And yesterday, I read here on CGN that those same Lee-Enfield actions are Push Round Feed actions.

I know that there was a thread recently entitled CRF versus Push Feed but I did not want to hijack that thread, so I am starting a new one. I also know that maybe that new thread might have been put in the Milsurp forum but nowadays, all Lee-Enfield rifles used in Canada are used for hunting or target shooting (Sporting rifles) or they are owned by collectors - except for the Canadian Ranger rifles that are still in the field.

So, what will it be : Controlled Round Feed or Push Feed for those Lee-Enfield rifles ?

TIA

 

[Boomer]

The Lee Enfield has a spring loaded extractor than snaps over the rim of the cartridge as the bolt closes on the cartridge. A CRF action, has a fixed extractor which holds the cartridge to the bolt face from the time the bolt is pulled back and the follower pushes the case head up between the extractor and the bolt face. The Lee Enfield therefore is a push feed action.

 

[hunter5425]

I've never checked before because to me push feed or CRF is a non issue. On my sporterized long branch the rim of a dummy round in the magazine slips under the extractor and is held to the bolt face by the extractor, though the extractor can snap over the rim if single fed as can some modified mauser extractors I've seen so I guess its a species of CRF.

 

[9.3mauser]

I've always considered them CRF because the rim comes up under the extractor when you're feeding from the magazine, which is the way you're supposed to do it.

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

Best way to test if you have a CRF action is to remove the bolt, then snap a round onto the bolt face. Now hold the bolt in a horizontal position to the ground. If the round remains fixed to the bolt, then it is a CRF. If the round falls from the bolt, then the action should be considered a push feed. This assuming the bolt face & extractor are not worn beyond reasonable tolerances.

The LE won't pass the test, but the Mauser 98 type system will.

 

[Cleftwynd]

Best way to test if you have a CRF action is to remove the bolt, then snap a round onto the bolt face. Now hold the bolt in a horizontal position to the ground. If the round remains fixed to the bolt, then it is a CRF. If the round falls from the bolt, then the action should be considered a push feed. This assuming the bolt face & extractor are not worn beyond reasonable tolerances.

The LE won't pass the test, but the Mauser 98 type system will.

^^^this!^^^

Unkess the bolt captures and retains the cartridge, it's a push feed.

 

[Leeper]

Controlled feed actions were designed that way to prevent double loading. The round would be captured by the extractor as it was stripped from the magazine and if the bolt was withdrawn before being fully closed, the cartridge would be ejected. There was no intent to be able to remove the bolt and admire the cartridge held captive in the bolt face. The Lee field does not have any enclosure of the cartridge so will not hold the cartridge when it is not out of the rifle. The flat boltface is necessary in order for the ejector system (a stationary screw)to work. Possibly the designers were unable to come up with a scenario where they felt the ability of the bolt to hold a cartridge when not in the rifle was of any importance. If the round feeds under the extractor, it's a CRF. The Lee Enfield is such. Many rifles which are touted as being CRF do no function that way due to design flaws in thye magazine and/or feed rails.

 

[Snowy Owl]

For those of you who might be interested, I also started the very same thread on another forum three days ago and, well, people differ in opinions - as they should, of course - but I was quite flabbergasted to see that some people never heard about this topic, including a very knowledgeable and very respected armorer, namely the Captain Peter Laidler.

I cannot summarize the whole thread, so if you want to know more about it, here is the link : w ww.milsurps.com/ (The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum).