Lee enfield rare .22 trainer...more pics up now

[bros]

I am looking for additional information regarding this rare .22 trainer. It has a "crude" (as I call it) rear sight, the original rear sight has been removed but the base is still there. On the breech it's marked "Birmingham Small Arms" and on the end of the barrel it stamped, "PARKER RIFLED AGP".
I have seen text and pictures and such on the internet regarding this particular rifle and this type of rear sight but can't seem to locate it. I looked thru Skennerton's "The Lee Enfield" but don't see it in there either.
This rifle is "kosher" and not some put together piece that came out of Bubba's basement.

Don't pay attention to what is written on the paper tag....that's not my info on their!!!

Maybe somebody can point me in the right direction, sorry that's it for pics right now but will hopefully be able to provide more tomorrow or Saturday if that helps.

Thanks

 

[jtaylor]

Hi Bros. Rumour has it that Parker Hale converted these for the RAF as a stopgap measure. Sorry I don't know the timeline. I have
one of those 'soft' steel sights designed by mickey mouse and installed by donald duck. So yours is not unique and there will be others
out there here in Canada. The rifle is not an official Brit government pattern and was made probably after WW2. Your rifle has a No.4 rifle mag
improperly installed. This is also not of Canadian origin but was imported by International in the 70s. A tubed barrel was always a quick fix
measure even for the official patterns made during WW1. JOHN

 

[englishman_ca]

A lined BSA barrel on an Enfield receiver? We would need to see the markings under the rear hand guard on the barrel to figure out some more of the story. I chuckled at the label. The rifle itself is not a 22No.2C, that is the marking on the bolt head, denoting that the bolt head is a 22 cal, second type with a two piece striker, converted from a 303 unit.

The barrel is a converted 303 unit also, so they are both war time manufacturing expediencies to produce trainers. Alfred Parker did the barrel, so likely did the entire conversion. The bolt head is military, but could have been switched out at some later time. Does the bolt have a matching serial number?

I have seen that sight before. There are a few in Canada. Brit, yes, I think so. RAF does seem to ring a bell. The sight is not very robust, and it for all the world looks like a high school metal shop project, but yes, it is legit!

The trainer was for use on a range, delicate sight, so careful handling required.

Nice find! A great variation for any collection.

 

[55recce]

I have one the same and have seen several more with this rear sight. Mine is a 1918 Enfield converted by Parker Hale in Birmingham, barrel is lined and marked Parker Enfield AGP on the muzzle. The bolt is numbers matching, but a forced match with the rear of the bolt handle skimmed and a new number stamped on. The nose cap is original matching. Someone has lightly impressed the letters BC into the left hand side of the stock towards the butt plate twice. No idea what this is about. The magazine is a No 1 Mk iii but just an empty shell with no spring or follower to catch empty brass.

I have seen several threads on these but no convincing explanation of who they were made for. One theory I read was that these may have been for cadet force use. I find the RAF explanation a little unconvincing as so few RAF rifles have made their way to Canada (look at the No. 7 for example). There are no markings on the rear sight and it seems pretty robust to me. Looks like it was made by someone in a Russian gulag using spare parts from a tractor. It is certainly not delicate and would not seem to require any special handling that I am aware of. Resistant to all but a large hammer would seem to be a better description. The screw heads that attach the site are somewhat chewed up so it looks like someone with the wrong sized screw driver took the sight off and put it back on several times. Interesting how the safety is bent out to accommodate the rear sight.

 

[bearhunter]

I had one of those. It was quite accurate.

Mine was a non military, commercial build by Parker Hale. It was in much better shape than the rifle in your pics

The rear sight on mine needed to be straight up to see properly through the aperture. It also needed to be regulated for different batches of ammo, if they were wide enough apart in performance.

There is enough adjustment in the slots where the two base screws/cover plate are for most elevation changes and enough side to side movement of the aperture plate for windage.

They aren't common but they aren't rare either, they were about as basic and cheap as it got to fill a void in the shooting world.

I believe there is a write up on the type in Skennerton's books. I gave my copies to some newbies in the game a few years ago, so I can't verify this.

International Firearms and Marstar brought in several hundred of these back in the day. They had them for a long time. That rear sight scared a lot of folks off.

Keep it. Enjoy it. If the bore is good, the accuracy will be just fine with "standard velocity" ammo

 

[bros]

A lined BSA barrel on an Enfield receiver? We would need to see the markings under the rear hand guard on the barrel to figure out some more of the story. I chuckled at the label. The rifle itself is not a 22No.2C, that is the marking on the bolt head, denoting that the bolt head is a 22 cal, second type with a two piece striker, converted from a 303 unit.

The barrel is a converted 303 unit also, so they are both war time manufacturing expediencies to produce trainers. Alfred Parker did the barrel, so likely did the entire conversion. The bolt head is military, but could have been switched out at some later time. Does the bolt have a matching serial number?

I have seen that sight before. There are a few in Canada. Brit, yes, I think so. RAF does seem to ring a bell. The sight is not very robust, and it for all the world looks like a high school metal shop project, but yes, it is legit!

The trainer was for use on a range, delicate sight, so careful handling required.

Nice find! A great variation for any collection.

I will be able to provide the necessary pictures tomorrow or on Sunday . The rifle is all matching as far as bolt, fore-stock and nose cap and I think barrel as well but that will be confirmed. Yes the rear sight looks as it was a hastily designed afterthought. It's unfortunate, but it is a period correct factory sight, that's the main thing. It is part of the Enfield .22 trainer lineage and there were a fair number of different makes and models produced over the years. Rifleman.org.uk certainly has a number of .22 cal trainers that can be seen of their web site but this one seems to have been an oversight. I'm going to keep hunting for more info on this one and will post any additional info I come up with.....

 

[bros]

Some more pictures here.....hope this helps a bit!!!
Sorry, in original post, I had mentioned that the nose cap was matching. Sorry I'm mistaken, it's un-numbered.

 

[bearhunter]

Definitely a sleeved barrel and stamped exactly the same as the rifle I had.