Lee Enfield Rifling

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ENFIELD1911

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I was at a gun show a few years ago and I was looking at a Savage Enfield and the selling point the guy tried to use was that it has a two groove barrel that made it more accurate. I didn't bite as no modern rifle has two groove rifling. Now I would like to know which MK 4 was more accurate the Savage with a 2 groove or let's say a Longbranch with 5 or which ever other manufacturer
 
2 groove rifling was a production concession in order to get guns produced faster. At the time rifling was cut one groove at a time, 0.001" (or so) per pass. So by eliminating 3 groves they could make more barrels, quicker.

Testing was done at the time and it was found that it shot just as good as the standard rifling that the war department allowed it.

I have a No1MkIII* that has 'sporting' rifle rifling. It was made by BSA during WW2. It was allowed by the war dept. b/c it would take too long to retool BSA's 4 groove rifling machine to produce 5 groove, at a time when they were short on rifles. There was also some rifles, made at Longbranch that had 6 groove rifling too.
 
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There was nothing wrong with 2 groove. As cdn303 said. The 2 groove met the factory standard of the day. They are no more or less accurate than 3, 4, 5 or 6 groove on a standard issue battle rifle.
 
the 2 groove can be more or less accurate, they were made in wartime rush conditions, and workable was better than perfect, so some are not very good, but the added land material means they tend to shoot our current undersized bullets better since the bullet has to fill a smaller area
 
From what I remember CGN member 'Smellie" saying; they were just as accurate as any other, out to 500 or 600 yards, after that, the five/six groove was superior.

How often you plan on shooting out past 500 or so yards will be a factor, though not many of us do.
 
I have Long Branch made Nr4 with 2 groove barrel.I shoot lead bullets exclusively and that rifle is much more accurate than most of my other milsurps.
Is it due to 2 grooves?Maybe but on other hand 2 grooves limit severely choice of bullets I can use.I use 200Gr by NOE and anything lighter just wont shoot anywhere near level of 200Gr.
Also softer alloys are a no-no.Water quenched WW at least.

Bonus with 2 groover-cleaning is a breeze.3-4 passes with bore snake+H#9 and done.
 
donor said:
I have Long Branch made Nr4 with 2 groove barrel.I shoot lead bullets exclusively and that rifle is much more accurate than most of my other milsurps.
Is it due to 2 grooves?Maybe but on other hand 2 grooves limit severely choice of bullets I can use.I use 200Gr by NOE and anything lighter just wont shoot anywhere near level of 200Gr.
Also softer alloys are a no-no.Water quenched WW at least.

Bonus with 2 groover-cleaning is a breeze.3-4 passes with bore snake+H#9 and done.
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I do the same, what size are you loading?. I size to .314 for my old savage 2 groove get good groupings all the time. Hard big boolits are the trick.
I can't see 2 groove out performing any other barrel. It was done to speed up production. They don't make expensive target rifles with 2 grooves.
Be well
 
Tyler said:
From what I remember CGN member 'Smellie" saying; they were just as accurate as any other, out to 500 or 600 yards, after that, the five/six groove was superior.

How often you plan on shooting out past 500 or so yards will be a factor, though not many of us do.
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I was just going to mention this. I believe it is commented on in Hatchers Notebook, and (brain fart, don't kill me ) The Lee Enfield Story?
 
My experience is that the 2 groove starts to fall short and groups start to open up after 300 metres compared to a five groove. Bullet drop seems to be more adverse as well. More elevation clicks required to keep hits on target.
 
leebuilder said:
I do the same, what size are you loading?. I size to .314 for my old savage 2 groove get good groupings all the time. Hard big boolits are the trick.
I can't see 2 groove out performing any other barrel. It was done to speed up production. They don't make expensive target rifles with 2 grooves.
Be well
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NOE 314365 sized .314 and under it 12 Gr Green Dot or 12.2 Red Dot or 12.3 of HP-38. OAL 3.170 seems to be very critical in my rifle.
 
That confirmed what I thought I already new. Now hears a new question Longbranches with six groove barrels are they the most accurate of the enfields les built target rifles and AIA B2s of course
 
I have a question about these different groove barrels.

Does the 2,4,6 groove barrels have the same rifling twist?

With the rifles being built years apart, they may have more than just groove count differences. Twist, groove depth, throat lengths etc.

This could be the reason one style shoots differently at different distances.
 
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The six groove LB has a right hand twist and is limited to 1950 LB production and were originally ment for the Bren gun. I remember reading an article or post going into depth about how left twist was considered more accurate this side of the equator and right hand for south of it and got into shooting with the turn of the earth or against it. The article had also referenced the Boar war and their rifles compared to the enfield. all in all was an interesting read but I can't state to the accuracy of the article. Are there any other military rifles that used a right hand twist in there production?
 
I'm not sure but I've also read (please correct me if I'm wrong) that some two groove rifles (possibly the more damaged ones) also had a tendency to tumble some heavier rounds or some bullet types
 
I have a sporter 43 LB no.4 with a two grove barrel, it shoots well. I don't reload so I don't shoot it a ton as commercial ammo is not cheap. I'd love to get into reloading just to be able to shoot my LE's more and at longer distances.
 
ENFIELD1911 said:
The six groove LB has a right hand twist and is limited to 1950 LB production and were originally ment for the Bren gun. I remember reading an article or post going into depth about how left twist was considered more accurate this side of the equator and right hand for south of it and got into shooting with the turn of the earth or against it. The article had also referenced the Boar war and their rifles compared to the enfield. all in all was an interesting read but I can't state to the accuracy of the article. Are there any other military rifles that used a right hand twist in there production?
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Made on Bren tooling, not made for a Bren gun. Some of those barrels were used on post war rebuilds, my 6 grove was a 1944. I can tell you that there was absolutely zero accuracy difference between that rifle and my 1943 2 groove Maltby out to about 400m.
 
Any odd number of lands/grooves in theory will provide more accuracy as there is less bullet deformation. Opposing even number lands/grooves "pinch/squeeze" the bullet more then odd numbered.
For ####s and giggles, compare the 100+ year old 5 groove Enfield rifling to the newish 5R rifling that everyone has their panties wet over.
 
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