lee enfield-snider 1868 pricing question

tigertrout

tigertrout

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I have an 1868 lee enfield snider missing the ram rod and the bore is crap.
the rest of the gun is in quite nice original condition, basically it is a brown gun .....very nice patina, wood is excellent (complete.....not butchered) and breech in also in excellent condition...everything functions well, nice and solid action from hammer and trigger. Looking for a ball park figure for quick sale.....I do not collect these and it came with a bunch of other guns........I do not want to hold onto it for long. Thanks in advance.
 
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Well, first of all, it's not a Lee Enfield Snider! ;) It is a Snider-Enfield - i.e. a conversion of the existing British .577 Enfield muzzle-loading rifles to breech-loaders, using a system submitted by a man named Jacob Snider ...

The Snider-Enfield, adopted in 1866-67, in several configurations (3-band infantry "Long Rifle", 2-band "Short Rifle" and various carbines) was intended as a "stop-gap" measure pending adoption of a new breechloading rifle for the British Army - and it wasn't in service very long in most of the British Empire, since its replacement (the Martini-Henry) was provisionally adopted in 1872 and into full production by 1874. However, Canada never adopted the Martin-Henry, so Snider-Enfields were our primary military longarms from 1866-67 through to 1896, when we finally got the .303 bolt-action Magazine Lee-Enfield ("Long Lee-Enfield"). As a result, Sniders are probably as plentiful in Canada as anywhere in the world, though they certainly do have collector value ...

Value varies considerably with condition and type (i.e. long or short rifle, artillery carbine, cavalry carbine, cadet carbine, etc.) To give some idea of value (beyond "$100 and up ...") you'd need to give a much better description of it (including the various main markings - particularly those on the lockplate and buttstock) - preferably with good pictures.
 
What Grant is trying to say is that it could be worth anywhere from $250.00 to $1,250.00 depending on condition and on historical prevenance. From the little you advised me it is probably in the lower range considering the barrel condition and the lack of ramrod and nipple protector. Dave
 
I am going to bring this back up to the top for some questions some of you guys might be able to help me with. My neighbor at the lake has an old rifle that says Enfield 1868 on the side. She has had it in a closet for over 60 years and is curious if it is worth anything and what it is and a rough history of what it may have been used for. It may be for sale if it is worth something but it will likely end up on the wall of her cabin. I do not know anything about antique guns so I hope you guys can help. I will gladly post some pictures if that is what is required. I believe the gun could easily be functional with some cleaning.

Here are a few pictures:
8_14_200610_57AM_0001.jpg

8_14_200610_55AM_0001.jpg

8_14_200610_54AM_0001.jpg

8_14_200610_53AM_0001.jpg

8_14_200610_52AM_0001.jpg
 
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Is it Canadian marked? Usually an impressed DC in a diamond on left side. Is it regimentally marked? Numbers stamped on sides of butt or on butt plate tang. Is the ramrod an original? It will be marked with an inspectors stamp just below the head. How is the bore? Most collectors are shooters so that is important. History depends on answers to above questions. I will help if questions are answered. Value...$250.00 to 1,250.00....condition! Dave
 
I thought you said it was missing the ramrod? The pic you posted has a rod...?

The rod, when missing, hurts the value considerably. It's near impossible to find a replacement without scrapping another gun to get one. The Italian Pattern'53 repro rods are too big in diameter and don't fit the real rifles.

If the bore is pitted up, this also hurts value considerably. MOST of the Sniders on the market actually have nice bores unless they were stored poorly since being surplussed. A complete decent rifle with a poor bore is, at best, a $600 gun in my estimation.
 
The gun has been in a closet for 60+ years and the history before that is unknown. I do not know how to read or underatand any of the markings. I did notice that the number on the ramrod and butplate match. What caliber is one of these - does it fire a centerfire brass cartridge? Here are a few more pictures:
8_14_200611_08AM_0001x.jpg

8_14_200611_07AM_0001x.jpg

8_14_200611_05AM_0001x.jpg

8_14_200611_00AM_0001x.jpg

8_14_200610_57AM_0002x.jpg

8_14_200610_52AM_0002x.jpg

8_14_200611_01AM_0001x.jpg

8_14_200610_56AM_0001x.jpg
 
You have a rifle that started life as a Pattern 1853 MkI musket. At some point it was converted to a Snider-Enfield MkII**. It is marked to "dominion of Canada (DC). I'm sure Grant will know what GVA means - likely a unit or district of issue. Looks decent - how is the bore? the pic of the bore doesn't show much detail...

It takes .577 Snider brass cased cartridges. Some old Dominion stuff can still be found, but you'll likely have to roll your own if you want to shoot it much.
 
The picture of the bore did not turn out great. When I was at the cabin I did not have my camera and those are actually pictures generated from a video camera. The bore was more dusty inside than anything. It was quite shiny but tough to tell without cleaning if it was pitted at all. The rifling appeared to be quite intact and sharp.
 
The rifle appears to be a standard Mark II** Snider-Enfield Rifle - i.e. "long rifle", with three barrel
bands and brass furniture (nosecap, triggerguard and buttplate) issued primarily to Infantry units.
(The other most commonly encountered type of Snider-Enfield with Canadian markings is the "Short
Rifle" - barrel 6" shorter, only two barrel bands and the "furniture" is iron rather than brass -
issued primarily to Sergeants of Infantry and to all Other Ranks in "Rifles" units.)

As already noted the "D C" is a Canadian government ownership mark - denoting "Dominion of
Canada" - adopted very shortly after Confederation, and in use throughout most of the rest of
the 19th Century (along with some other less common marks like "CM" (Canadian Militia)
and "MD" or "M&D" (Department of Militia and Defence.)\

Regulations called for the DC mark to be stamped on the wooden buttstock (left side) and
technically the letters should be within a diamond shaped border - though some units
apparently didn't have the special stamps issued for that purpose, or misinterpreted the
instructions, or whatever, since it is not uncommon to see the mark without the diamond,
like yours, and also elsewhere on the stock - most commonly on the right side of the butt.
(A copy of the original marking instructions is appended at the end of the post.)

The DC initials will be seen both with and without periods - here are examples of both -
note that the second one involved a rifle being re-marked at some time in its military career -

MySDCmk2.jpg


DC_double_Sndr.jpg


The G V A mark has been noted on other rifles - at least one of which is documented in
an appendix to David W. Edgecombe's "Defending the Dominion: Canadian Military Rifles,
1855-1955", though no specific meaning is ascribed to it, and I was in contact with
another fellow a year or so ago who had a rifle with the same mark. One guess is that it
stands for "Garrison Volunteer Artillery", or something like that - Canada's military forces of
the day were all volunteer militia, with different types of units, including "Cavalry",
"Infantry", "Rifles", ""Field Artillery" (i.e. manning field guns) and "Garrison Artillery" (manning
guns in fortifications.) However, militating against that interpretation is the fact that yours
is a "Long Rifle" (as is the one documented in Edgecombe's book - I can't recall offhand
which version the other one was) - whereas Artillery units were generally issued the Short
Rifle. So who knows ... :confused:

Anyway, here are the original marking instructions:

1867mi~1.jpg
 
Rifling.....

Not throwing any shadows on a fine historic rifle....but...if you look at the photo of the bore you will see three sharp lines while there would be six quite evident in a good bore. There are three lands and especially in the iron barrels (Mark2**) the driving side of these lands was sometimes worn smooth and becomes a slope rather than an edge and is not visible as a sharp edge as is the off side of the land. Dave
 
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