Lee Factory Crimp Die
- Thread starter GIGGIDY
- Start date
You certainly have a flair for the dramatics. FYI here is the quote from the Ranch Dog website again.
"Do not use the Lee Carbide (pistol) Factory Crimp Die to provide the crimp! The carbide sizing ring at the base of the die will reduce the size of your cast bullet. " From this site:http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/inde...&products_id=1
Is he wrong too?
My Lee FCD resizes the outside of the case to .473" which is SAMMI spec for a .451 bullet. When I insert a .452" lead bullet it will get swaged down to .451 which is exactly 1/1000th of an inch to small for lead cast bullets. and that assumes the case wall is no thicker than .022" (.473-.451). If it is thicker the lead bullet will get sized down even more.
From the Lee website:
"A carbide sizer sizes the cartridge while it is being crimped so every round will positvely chamber freely with factory like dependability"
The bulge you get when loading lead bullets sized to .452 vs .451 for jacketed bullets and is completely normal and what you should expect as lead bullets have to be sized a minimum 1/1000th over bore to properly seal the bullet to prevent gas cutting, a major cause of leading.
The Lee FCD if set up properly sizes the cartridge back down to within SAMMI specs and in the process swages down the bullet. Why because the .473 sizing ring for the case is at the base of the die so it doesn't matter what or how nice your cases are before they enter the die the ring must cross the part of the cartridge that is holding your .452 sized bullet before it gets to the balance of the case and before the die "crimps" your bullet. In the unlikely event you have a .45acp case that in all respects is within SAMMI specs, your case, when loaded with a .452 bullet, should have an outside diameter of at least .474 that will exit your die at .473 with a crimp at the mouth of .471 +/- 1/1000. Live in denial if you choose.
Take Care
Bob
ps FCD for rifle and bottle neck pistol cartridges uses a collet to set the crimp and does not have carbide sizing ring at the base of the die - it is this ring that resizes the case in straight walled pistol cartridges and is the bain of lead bullets that are sized properly. see pics above but, according to Lee gives you a "....round will positvely chamber freely with factory like dependability".
pps Because of the wide variety of .45acp cases it has been my experience that plated bullets sized .451 often suffer the same fate when run through a Lee FCD. Why, because often the cases are thicker than SAMMI specs which leads to the bullets being swaged down in size.
My bullets (home cast .45 - not Ranch Dog 9mm) are exactly sized to .452 and the FCD does not resize my cases or my bullets at all. I don't have to deny, because I own a nice caliper and actually use it to measure my rounds. They still have the same bulge at the same size after being pushed through the FCD as they did before.
Since the vast majority of people on this site (look at the poll results) and elsewhere are not having your problem, why not ask for help in diagnosing what you're doing wrong? You should be asking for help instead of calling others liars whose dies are working.
Either your caliper is off, or you have a defective Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. Call Lee Precision to report your problem, and they'll be happy to fix you up with a replacement.
Also, that bullet in your blurry photo looks shaved. Are you flaring the case mouth enough to accept your bullet? Shaving even a little will definitely take a couple thousandth's off. It will also cause lead to smear into the lube grooves of your bullet. Did you see any displaced lead in the bullet grooves? If so, that's probably your problem and it has nothing to do with your die or your caliper.
I'm sure between myself and other knowledgeable folks here, we can help you out.
Edit: BTW, The SAAMI specification for the .45ACP case web is .476” in diameter, and case thickness (in civilian ammunition) is normally around .020" give or take a bit. The SAAMI spec of .473" you quoted is actually the max crimp size at the casing's mouth. Hope this info helps. It certainly shows just how bad your problem is. Perhaps you bought the wrong caliber die. I've seen it happen!
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Listen I don't know who you are or why you post but you haven't answered the questions posed in my last post.
Both the Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook and the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading manuals list the outside diameter of the case to be .473" and .476 at the web.
FYI most of those who answered this poll use the FCD for rifles. The FCD dies for rifles works well for rifle cartridges and I use the die for all of those I cast for. The die uses a collet to set the crimp, something the FCD for the .45acp does not.
The Ranch Dog quote is speaks to the use of FCD. The link I provided takes you to the .44mag bullet.
Why not just pull one of your bullets from a cartridge you have sized down with your FCD and measure the circumference. You might also measure the case sizing ring located at the bottom of the die as well. That is the part of the design that sets up the problems when using cast bullets.
Yes I bell all my cases and the lead smearing you see is from the FCD resizing the bullet. The bullet on the right came from a another cartridge where the FCD was not used.
While I appreciate your efforts to defend your position and your not so well disguised condenscending reply you might want to consider there is a good chance I can read and the die in question is the Lee FCD in .45acp.
Take Care
Bob
Both the Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook and the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading manuals list the outside diameter of the case to be .473" and .476 at the web.
FYI most of those who answered this poll use the FCD for rifles. The FCD dies for rifles works well for rifle cartridges and I use the die for all of those I cast for. The die uses a collet to set the crimp, something the FCD for the .45acp does not.
The Ranch Dog quote is speaks to the use of FCD. The link I provided takes you to the .44mag bullet.
Why not just pull one of your bullets from a cartridge you have sized down with your FCD and measure the circumference. You might also measure the case sizing ring located at the bottom of the die as well. That is the part of the design that sets up the problems when using cast bullets.
Yes I bell all my cases and the lead smearing you see is from the FCD resizing the bullet. The bullet on the right came from a another cartridge where the FCD was not used.
While I appreciate your efforts to defend your position and your not so well disguised condenscending reply you might want to consider there is a good chance I can read and the die in question is the Lee FCD in .45acp.
Take Care
Bob
Perhaps you have no idea what a "case web" is. But don't you think that I and others on this forum might also have the books you mention and can verify your claims? The fact is that I do have them. I own many books on gunsmithing, the .45 ACP cartridge, reloading, and at least 5 good reloading references.
In order to show what an honest person you are, I went to the trouble of actually taking a picture of my newer Lyman 49th edition book I own showing the spec of the .45 ACP illustrated on page 380:
This is the book you referenced. I think everyone can see where the crimp is. And funny how the boolit shown is .452! Shameful of you ... really.
And you know this how? Considering most FCD's are distributed with the Lee Deluxe 4-Pistol Die Set, I think you're ridiculously reaching there.
Swagging a bullet inside of a case will NOT cause smearing. It will cause mushrooming of material that will extend over your grooves, but will not smear lead into the groove itself. You have an obvious shaving problem.
Since you don't want help, good luck anyway. But don't call folks whose equipment works for them LIARS. That's just not right.
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You go on and on. I hope those who have read this thread read Ranch Dog's warning and are guided accordingly. You have gone from serious injury, to death and now Liars. You truly are a piece of work.All the best
Take Care
Bob
Are you suggesting the image I took of the Lyman reloading manual is doctored, and you were in fact honest about what it specified? And I'm a "piece of work" according to you?
There are likely others on this forum who own the manual. It's quite popular. They might look at the page in question and finds it matches the image I posted. Did you think of that possibility?
The "Ranch Dog" guy has no warnings about the .452 bullet for .45 ACP, and pretending he does is just silly. And even in the alternate reality if he did, frankly who cares about one guy's opinion is if your caliper measurements show the die is not resizing your case or bullet.
People use what works for them in the guns they own. I suffer from no resizing problems, barrel leading problems, nor accuracy problems. My bullets remain as .452 which fit my barrel perfectly. I've pulled them many times as I've previously mentioned again and again. Don't call the majority of us liars. It's just not right.
There are likely others on this forum who own the manual. It's quite popular. They might look at the page in question and finds it matches the image I posted. Did you think of that possibility?
The "Ranch Dog" guy has no warnings about the .452 bullet for .45 ACP, and pretending he does is just silly. And even in the alternate reality if he did, frankly who cares about one guy's opinion is if your caliper measurements show the die is not resizing your case or bullet.
People use what works for them in the guns they own. I suffer from no resizing problems, barrel leading problems, nor accuracy problems. My bullets remain as .452 which fit my barrel perfectly. I've pulled them many times as I've previously mentioned again and again. Don't call the majority of us liars. It's just not right.
Tsk, Tsk Tsk. Try stamping your feet. Read what Lee says about the die...it resizes the case, enough said.
Take Care
Bob
Actually I do know who he is. I'm a member of the Cast Boolit forum under a different name. I just happened to join this particular Canadian Gunnutz group recently.
The difference is, is that you lied about what the manual said. I therefore supplied an actual photo of the page to prove it.
P.S. Would you also like me to post a photograph of the pages where case dimensions for safety to prevent bullet setback are discussed from a few of my books and manuals as well since you don't believe me? I've already quoted them.
Frankly, you're a danger to newbies and anyone else who might take you seriously who reload. Hopefully, no one does.
Use one or don't I really don't care but you might want to re-visit how the die works before going on like you have.
Take Care
Bob
It works great for me
Why would I revisit or change anything? BTW, Lee already has a taper crimp die for .45 ACP. It's model 90785 and retails for $12.98. They have one for 9mm too. But I prefer the Lee factory crimp die (FCD) because if I ever did put together a round that was out of spec, the FCD would resize it so that it would at least chamber in my 1911. If I can't chamber it, I can't shoot it.
But in the thousands and thousands of rounds I've but together and put through the FCD, not one so far has been resized because I only use .452 bullets so things are within spec after bullet seating. it's still there in case I'd ever need it. Meanwhile it does give me a nice .471 taper crimp.
I hope you solve your problems.
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For anyone interested in .45 ACP bullets larger than .452", you should be able to get away with a bullet as large as .453" and still be within SAAMI specifications which is a case-mouth/crimp of .4730", and neck starting at .4732" increasing to its maximum diameter of .4760" just above the extractor groove.
.45 ACP Offical SAAMI Specifications
.45 ACP Offical SAAMI Specifications
