Lee Handloading Kit Question

rodbunlap

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Location
Whistler, BC
So I have a few guns now and ammo is really, really starting to get expensive. I'm interested in trying reloading, but don't really want to spend the money on a press, and don't feel comfortable using one until I know what I'm doing in general. I'm interested in starting with a Lee Handloading kit and was looking for some advice.

My first gun is a 3006 bolt action. This is the one that I really want to start hand-loading for. I have some of my own once fired brass, so as far as I can tell, all I need is the handloading kit in the correct caliber and I'm good to go aside from powder, primers, etc...

The second one I want to reload for is a M14 clone. Since it is a semi auto, I understand I need to do more than just size the neck, and that is where I get confused. What do I need to size my cases properly?

I know that in general I will need a scale and something to clean my cases, but what else do I need to start reloading? Any little essentials that will make things easier?

I know some people are going to say get a press kit, but I would rather start with the complete basics, so I can get comfortable with things and not worry about messing around with a mechanical tool. I also want to double and triple check each stage so I don't make a whoopsie...
 
a LEE Loader would work for the bolt 30-06, as it only neck sizes, doesn't touch the body at all. Also, the charge tables in the LL's are medium to mild so the brass never really needs to be full length resized. If you go above the published loads that come with the loader, you may need to full length size once in awhile.

as for the m14, I've not had one, but have had other semi's and never loaded for them.
 
Do you need anything else in order to load for your m1a? I read somewhere I have to size more than just the neck and am wondering what tools I will need to do that?
 
You can get cheap single stage presses. A Lee Classic can be had for 125 (recommended), or a Lee Reloader can be had for 45 if you want to go real cheap. Its easier to learn on a stationary single stage that is bolted to a table as opposed to the handloader, as you will be adjusting dies a bit until you get them right.

You can get a set of Lee dies to do it all for 35 bucks

Then pick up a set of calipers for measuring for 30 bucks.

Total cost would be 105 +HST / Shipping bucks with the cheapest options

Your major cost will be the components. But remember to make it worth your while price wise you want to buy in quantity, and when you do that you just end up shooting more for the same price as opposed to "saving money" as the money is sitting in boxes or containers of components.

But you also save in the sense that you have no worry to have to go to the ammo shop, nor wait in line, nor waste gas and time buying ammo. To me that is the important part as half the time I go to an ammo shop they are sold out of what i want
 
You can get a Lee Turret so you can set all your dies and forget, you can disable the auto-indexing and work as a single stage, plus you will not have to adjust the dies all the time.
Lee has Die kits that have neck sizing die, full sizing die or both included.
For your bolt action you can size neck only, for hunting some people doesnt like that, they say it gets too tight and any dirt in the chamber might make things harder to load a round. (not experienced that myself)
For the M14 you have to full size and pay attention to how far you are going to bump the shoulder back, some people suggest .002" so your brass may last longer. You will need to measure your M14's headspace, I think Hungry can help you with that.
As soon as you see marks on the brass, throw it away as it will probably break and get stuck in the chamber.
Primers should be seated below the rim, that would help prevent slam fires, also the recommended primer is CCI#50, hard to find, but you can try others, the harder the better. My M14 for instance slams with winchester factory ammo or handloaded with winchester primers.

Below is some info I found with my google fu a long time ago and saved...

Most reloaders learn of two basic resizing dies for bottleneck rifle cartridges: the Full Length (FL) and Neck Only sizing dies.

FL dies will resize the entire case including the neck, body, and bump the shoulder. Neck dies will resize only the neck, and will not resize the body or bump the shoulder down. Neck dies help to maximize case life because the body/shoulder portions of the brass are not being constantly sized down and fired out during each iteration of use.

Most reloaders understand that neck only dies should only be used when 1) reloading fired brass for the same gun that the brass was fired out of and 2) only in bolt-action rifles.

That leaves the semi-auto / gas rifle shooters left with using a FL sizing die. Does this mean that people reloading for autoloaders are doomed to short brass life? Not at all.

FL dies are actually fairly misunderstood dies. Reloaders tend to read the die manufacturer's instructions in setting the die and use it as is. Manufacturer's instructions are correct in terms of getting the die set to size the brass to within SAAMI specifications which will result in properly sized cases in terms of proper feeding, reliablity, and use in any firearm chambered for the respective cartridge. But this also means that the brass is most often being sized more than necessary in terms of the shoulder setback process.

Before continuing, it is important that the reader understand what headspace is. Headspace refers to the distance between the breech face and the part of the chamber of the gun that stops the forward movement of the cartridge case. In rimless bottleneck cases such as the .223 Remington, the headspace of a rifle is the distance from the bolt face to the chamber datum line that contacts the shoulder of the .223 case. In terms of the .223 cartridge case itself, it is measured from the bottom of the case (head) to the datum line on the shoulder of the case.

When a bottleneck case is resized in an FL die, the body and neck are sized down, and the die pushes down/back or 'bumps' the shoulder of the case. This shoulder bump is the 'headspace' resizing of the case.

This aspect is what determines the life of a case being reloaded for a semi-auto rifle. If a reloader follows the FL die instructions, the shoulder of the case is often bumped down anywhere to .005" to .015" from it's fired state (and maybe even more, depending on the respective rifle's chamber). Assuming a reloader is constantly bumping the shoulder of the brass .015" from the fired state, there is going to be a constant stretch of the brass in the body, typically near the web. This constant stretching of the case and shoulder bumping from firing and resizing is what leads to the eventual wear of the brass near the web and leads to the case head separation.

So it is apparent that the reloader can minimize case stretch when reloading cases for a semi-auto rifle by minimizing the amount of shoulder bump during the resizing process. How do we accomplish that?

By using a headspace measuring gauge.

There are several tools to measure or compare the headspace of cases. One inexpensive option is the Hornady (formerly Stoney Point) Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge. The Hornady headspace gauge is a device that attaches to the jaws of any standard caliper. It can be purchased with the body only, or in a kit with several bushings for most of the popular cartridges.


Hornady LNL Headspace Gauge Kit: Body (far left) and bushings.


Gauge attached to caliper.

In order to effectively manage the amount of shoulder bump during the FL resizing process, the reloader should measure several cases fired from the rifle in which the ammunition is being reloading for, using the headspace gauge. The resulting measurement of the fired cases will be the value used as the headspace 'length' of the rifle. Measuring several cases should ensure a correct 'average'; the sample fired cases should measure the same and not vary more than +/-.001", if at all.


Measuring a fired case. Headspace value approximately 1.459".

After that value is recorded, the reloader should work on setting the FL die appropriately. This will be trial and error, with the operator constantly adjusting how high or low the die is threaded in the press until the desired resulting headspace measurement is acheived.

Basically, start the die a bit higher than normal and run the brass through it. Clean lube off of it and measure. If the shoulder is still too high, turn the die down more and resize the case again. Clean the lube and measure. Repeat until the desired amount of shoulder set back is achieved. Test the setting with a few other fired cases.

What is a desired measurement? Bumping the shoulder back .002" from the measurement of the fired brass will be ideal. This ensures that there is actual resizing of the shoulder taking place while minimizing the amount of shoulder bump after each resizing.


Measuring a resized case. Headspace value approximately 1.451". .008" difference from fired measurement of 1.459"; a bit too much shoulder bump.


Measuring a resized case after die adjustment. Headspace value approximately 1.457". .002" difference from fired measurement of 1.459". Good amount of shoulder bump.

There are several other gauges out there used to measure headspace of cases, but the Hornady LNL Headspace Gauge is a readily available product at a respective price (~$45 MSRP for the kit; ~$30 street price).

Whatever headspace gauge is used, semi-auto rifle reloaders can still maximize case life while at the same time maintaining ammunition reliability using a Full Length resizing die. The shooter reloading for a semi-auto rifle is not hindered in any way by the inability to use implement a neck only sizing die.

Note: It is important to understand that the measurement taken of the fired cases is applicable to the firearm the cases were fired from. Brass resized using the above methods should only be used in the one firearm that it was originally fired out of. It is possible to use the same reloads in another rifle of the same chambering, assuming the headspace of the rifles are exactly the same.

Addendum: The above concepts can also apply to bolt action rifles. While many bolt action rifle reloaders use a neck only sizing die, eventually, the shoulder on cases that have been neck only sized continuously will eventually need to have the shoulder 'bumped' back. Some bolt action rifle reloaders full length size everytime for increased reliability. Using the above methods will work to get a FL die set appropriately for a particular rifle's chamber.
Back to top


Display posts from previous:
Inland Shooters Forum Index -> Reloading All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1
 
Like a lot of other shooters I started re-loading with Lee loaders. They work, they load good ammunition and you can get fairly fast with them. Their main deficiency, as you have noted is that they don't size the case, just the neck, so won't work for a bottleneck case in a lever or semi-auto. For case cleaning, when I started I just used a bit of steel wool to clean the case necks. The loads are quite light and the powder dipper limits your load flexibility so you will need to add a scale fairly soon, you will also need a caliper to measure overall length and seating depth. You can get load data here: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Overall, they are not a bad way to learn to load, however, you would probably be better off in the long run to buy an inexpensive single stage press, scale, dies, Lee case gauges and trimmer and chamfer tool as a starting point. You will end up buying them anyway if you stay with it. As far as complexity, its not really that bad, just take your time, understand what you are trying to do at each step. If you know anyone who re-loads perhaps they would walk you thru the process.
 
I'd spend the money on a Lee hand press kit before getting a lee loader. They are fairly cheap(half the price of a lee 50th kit) and easy to use anywhere. You'll have to buy dies with it but it'll give you far more of a start into reloading than a Lee Loader will. I order from Titian reloading or Lee factory sales. Titian has the same prices but cheaper shipping than factory sales does.
 
OK, that's a lot to think about. I'm going to consider the press, especially if they are that affordable. I guess they aren't all that different from using the die kit with a rubber mallet.

Has anyone used the challenger breech lock kit? Would that be a good place to start? It seems to me that all I would have to add to that would be dies and I'm good to go for both calibers? Can I neck and full length size with the kit or do I still need to add another tool? I can pick one up locally for 169, or else I can order one with shipping for a bit less.

Thanks again for all the info, I'm going to be taking my time getting into this, but its something I want to learn well. I'm reading books/on line info before I get started.
 
You can also look for used gear. Most of this stuff is made to last a lifetime. I bought 2 rockchuckers so I wouldn't have to keep resetting dies, and I enjoy them. Lifetime warranty from RCBS.
You'll likely need a case trimmer, deburring tool, and a scale to get you going.
 
OK, that's a lot to think about. I'm going to consider the press, especially if they are that affordable. I guess they aren't all that different from using the die kit with a rubber mallet.

Has anyone used the challenger breech lock kit? Would that be a good place to start? It seems to me that all I would have to add to that would be dies and I'm good to go for both calibers? Can I neck and full length size with the kit or do I still need to add another tool? I can pick one up locally for 169, or else I can order one with shipping for a bit less.

Thanks again for all the info, I'm going to be taking my time getting into this, but its something I want to learn well. I'm reading books/on line info before I get started.
The challenger breechlock kit is a great way to start.
I bought the 50th Aniversary kit but the breechlock kit is better because it includes the hand primer instead of the press mounted one.

The other alternative if you like higher quality tools which will last you a lifetime is the RCBS Supreme Deluxe Reloading kit which includes the Chargemaster Combo.

This is the diametrically opposite of the Lee breechlock kit.

Both will be able to load accurate ammo though.
 
I started with the Lee 50th and found it good value for the money. Only down side on it was I was not impressed with the powder measure. Just did not think it was consistent so ended up weighing each charge with the scale. I did use a Lee Loader many years ago for a 223 and it worked fine.
 
I'll +1 or whatever on a Lee kit. The kit, a set of dies and a caliper gets you going for about $200.
It will give you much more flexibilty than just the Lee Loader, and you might never out-grow it.
If you are worried about neck vs. full length sizing, Lee makes a die set that has both.
Or you can set your full legth dies to size just the neck, or only part of the neck.
That flexibility is lost with the whack-a-mole tool, but they have their place too.
 
Thanks again for all the info. I think I will try to find a simple press with a kit, as it does seem cheaper than piecing together a press from scratch and probably more versatile in the long run.
 
OK, that's a lot to think about. I'm going to consider the press, especially if they are that affordable. I guess they aren't all that different from using the die kit with a rubber mallet.

Has anyone used the challenger breech lock kit? Would that be a good place to start? It seems to me that all I would have to add to that would be dies and I'm good to go for both calibers? Can I neck and full length size with the kit or do I still need to add another tool? I can pick one up locally for 169, or else I can order one with shipping for a bit less.

Thanks again for all the info, I'm going to be taking my time getting into this, but its something I want to learn well. I'm reading books/on line info before I get started.

You'll need case gauges for the trimmer as well. They cost a couple bucks each(one for each caliber). You'll need an electric drill in order to make use of the case trimmer.

A set of good calipers as well from a hardware store. They need to read down to the thousandth. I prefer non-electric ones as they always work and don't die at an inopportune time.

For neck and full length sizing you need the deluxe die sets that come with the neck sizer as well. Otherwise you have to order it separately. Just check and make sure it comes with both dies and for some reason I think the deluxe set might not include the factory crimp die(?). The crimping is optional and you can do it with the seating die as well if you need it....it's just more of a pain in the ass to set up than the factory crimp die.
 
I started reloading in the 1950's with original Winchester and Ideal hand tools. I created a LOT of good handloads. The Lee Precision Hand Press (I have one) is a modern version of those old tools and is better in a way because you can switch dies and also re-size your brass if you need to.
 
Don'tkillbill, thats the video that originally got me interested in the hand loader. I think because I am using a semi auto though, I am eventually going to need to switch to a press, so a simple one like the Lee does sound like it fits my needs.
 
You'll need case gauges for the trimmer as well. They cost a couple bucks each(one for each caliber). You'll need an electric drill in order to make use of the case trimmer.

A set of good calipers as well from a hardware store. They need to read down to the thousandth. I prefer non-electric ones as they always work and don't die at an inopportune time.

For neck and full length sizing you need the deluxe die sets that come with the neck sizer as well. Otherwise you have to order it separately. Just check and make sure it comes with both dies and for some reason I think the deluxe set might not include the factory crimp die(?). The crimping is optional and you can do it with the seating die as well if you need it....it's just more of a pain in the ass to set up than the factory crimp die.

use LEE trimmers, cheap and always the same, no set up time.

You do NOT need a drill, you can get the ball one for your hand.

no need to measure, trim them each and every time. By hand it takes two twists to bring them into length, once you have done it the first time, and only fired it once.

I think you could get by by partial neck sizing, in lieu of a NeckSize die. in a bolt gun, that should be enough. just size until the body is touched, so you don't move the shoulder forward.

for the AutoLoader, I think it is suggested that a crimp is required.

two sets will be needed won't they? does the M14 come in 30-06? or just 308?
 
Back
Top Bottom