Lee - Metford Carbine MK1 yr 1896

greywolf

greywolf

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does anyone have one of these ? If anyone does would you please post a picture of it. It seems I have managed to aquire one and it is a carbine, but it's the stock i'm mostly concerned about. I'm trying to find out if it has been cut down and (hopefully not ) sportered . It is in incredibly good shape , metal wise , the stock has a couple of small cracks on the top hand guard, and has a small repair on the one side and the re is a piece broken off on the bolt side . which i was told was so you could load it like a "stripper clip" type deal. Any help would be appreciated>
 
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I don't own a Metford carbine myself, but if you post some pics I should be able to answer some of your questions. Chances are if you think it's been chopped it probably has, although the mention of a hand guard is promising as they are usually the first thing gone. And there should be no provisions for charger loading.
 
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Here is a pic of a cavalry carbine using a reworked Sht LE stock. Close enough to original specs for comparison. Action is a Mk.I LEC circa 1896. Yours is a little late for a Lee Metford but never say never. What is marked on your butt socket on left hand side?

Barrel length is 21 inches from muzzle to bolt face.
 
from the looks of this pic , it's not a metford, mine has the same action but a small handguard between the action and the rear sight, It has the inline 6 round mag, and definitely does not have the full wood stock , the stock ends 2 inches past the rear sight . Also the hand guard looks to be "riveted" with some kind of brass rivets. the buttstock Brass piece is done in some kind of checkering. I will try and get a couple of pics in in the next few days. Once i get back from my weekly pilgrimage to the Deep woods of Manitoba :)
 
Upper hand guards were the norm on MLM and MLE rifles, but not the carbines. Also I believe a Lee Metford Carbine would have the early sling mount on the right side of the butt (and I'd expect a 1895 date) could it be a cut down MLM or MLE?
 
Reworked LEC

Here are a few more pics for Gary D.

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The rear reinforcing pin is a dead give away that this was an SMLE stock. An original carbine stock would have brass washers inlet and the brass rod riveted through.

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This carbine was made up from parts and functionality was the main objective, it would not fool anybody that it was original. But with a little more time and care, splices and wood patches could be blended in better and cosmetics improved.
 
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Any idea on rough price range for one of those?

I've heard from a very reliable source that $800 for an average is expectable, and $2000-$3000 for a vg one. I think it sounds about right... (sourcing for a friend).
 
H Wally said:
Any idea on rough price range for one of those?

I've heard from a very reliable source that $800 for an average is expectable, and $2000-$3000 for a vg one. I think it sounds about right... (sourcing for a friend).
Click to expand...

The blue book of gun values has it at 1500$ US for 60% and I can't remember what it was for 100% . Suffice it to say they are worth a fair chunk of change. I have no idea what this thing is but i'm going to go and take a couple of pics right now and try to get it on to here in the next hour or so , if not then tomorrow at some point.
 
 
OK good pics, although one of the full rifle and a close-up of the butt socket writing would be good I think I can make a proper ID from these.

pic1: interesting but plate, but the checkering is not original. Odd that they checkered the screws but not the door. It lacks a sling mount on the right side of the butt and that eliminates the possibility of this being a Metford carbine butt. And there is no ID disc, which makes me suspicious about being a Carbine.

Pic2: The money picture. While small it can make out some of the stampings on the socket I believe it likely says

mtm
\ I /
=== (yes that is a crown/royal cipher)
VR
ENFIELD
1896
LE
I

This tells us that first off this was not a commercial gun but was produced for the military. Manufactured in Enfield England in the year 1896. It is a Lee Enfield (better known as MLE, or long Lee in this case) mark I (OK I'm guessing about the mark I configuration but based on the above, I see no reason to presume otherwise). Also that the stampings are on the right side of the stock and not the left we know this is not a Carbine model. (For some reason the British like to stamp the carbines on the left side).

also the magazine cutoff has been removed, and although the magazine looks to be a 6 round mag, the profile looks wrong to me. LEC magazines are noticeably more angular in the corners coming straight into the forestock at the front, not extending down below. I'm guessing that it was shortened at the time of conversion to a hunting rifle.

And the bolt handle is not spooned (flattened). see Englishman's pics.

Picture 5 is also a very good one in that it tells us a lot too. The E on the Nock's form means it has Enfield rifling not Metford rifling (Confirming the MLE identification), that is definitely a Long Lee hand-guard and the graduation on the back sight only go up to 16 on the left side (because carbines did not have volley sights they went up to 20).

So my interpretation is that this was originally a 1896 produced MLE that has been sported, apparently by a competent gunsmith and cut to carbine length, possibly at the same time or perhaps later, that is impossible to say.

Keep it as is and enjoy it, it looks like a nice well cared for rifle. I love the cocking piece safety, especially for hunting.
 
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Ya, like wot he said.

Gary nailed it with his identification. Rifle reciever, bolt, handguard, sight. Butt is rifle, so is custom chequered butt plate. 1896 Enfield MLE Mk.I

Magazine follower is Long Lee, but that magazine body is a bit of a mystery. It is a double stack type, definately not factory. Possibly a modification or aftermarket from another model? Looks well done.

I got all excited with the mention of single stack magazine carbine. There were some prototype carbines made from the Mk.I Lee Metford rifle. No surviving examples are know to exist.
 
The barrel has a bunch of markings on it as well just past the stock, and the rear sight is about 1/2 way up the rifle and goes to 500 yards (gotta check that again) the magazine doesn't look to be altered . I will take the mag out and take a few pics of it , a full body shot of the rifle , and i'll try another shot of the barrel markings and the buttstock markings as well. Thanks
for the help thus far.
 
BSA did offer shorter 6 round magazines commercially, and there is no reason they would look like a LEC magazine, as it would be far easier to produce a shorter version of the 10 round mag (as images from the BSA sales sheets would indicate). This could be such a magazine.
 
Carbines would have the information on the LEFT side of the butt socket
Two Lee enfield carbines
One Lee metford WITH the saddle ring
two RIC carbines
two N.Z carbines (one from each production run) Information on the right side as well
 
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