I picked up a Lee Speed a few days ago and took it to the range yesterday only to find it tumbling bullets, hitting sideways at 100 yards. I tried a bullet in the muzzle and it goes all the way to the brass(.311 bullet). Crown looks good and rifling looks ok. Haven't slugged the bore yet, just wondering if those rifles would have a bigger bore or if it's just worn out. I don't have any interest in casting bullets or spending money on it, the stock is already cut down and the bolt is not matching. Is there any market for parts or would parting it out be a great sin? The bolt is complete with cover.
Lee Speed Keyholes
- Thread starter gerard488
- Start date
I had a No.4 that keyholed terribly. The bore was a bit of sewer pipe though, got burned on that deal but was able to off load it to guy that cast his own bullets with full disclosure of the problem. I would slug the bore.
What ammo are you shooting? I found flat based bullets behaved better in my rifle that keyholed
What ammo are you shooting? I found flat based bullets behaved better in my rifle that keyholed
"I tried a bullet in the muzzle and it goes all the way to the brass(.311 bullet). " this would be the problem....at least a counter bore is in order if not a new barrel
http://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/original-lee-enfield-no1-mk3-barrel
http://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/original-lee-enfield-no1-mk3-barrel
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
need to slug the bore.
there were some made in 8mm
there were some made in 8mm
I don't know personally, but I know they used to make a rimmed 8mm Mauser (8x57 JRS) which used a .318 projectile
A 303 British is a .311 projectile and is designated as 7.7x56mmR
So, since all dimensions of the 303 are dimensionally smaller, and rimmed cases tend to headspace off the rim, it might be theoretically possible that was the case?
- Location
- Western Manitoba
So, bullet into muzzle is saying something about the lands-to-lands distance. Slugging the bore tells you something about groove-to-groove distance. Bullets should usually be close to the groove diameter. I have read there are acceptable functioning 303 British rifles with groove-to-groove as large as .314" diameter. Not going to be buying jacketed bullets to fit that, but I was able to get some 200 grain Woodleigh Weldcore RNSN .318" bullets for the 8x57J cartridge. As mentioned, slugging the bore will tell you where your rifle is at. Some bullet designs might "slug up" at their base when fired, better than others. At minimum, use flat base bullets, not boat tails, for that reason. I will be trying Nosler Partition in a "dog" of a 270 Win with oversize grooves in the barrel - my hope is that their open rear end might slug up better than the close ended bullets that have been tried in it. Something to keep in mind - I believe that in the day of the Lee Speed, the 303 British may have had a 215 grain round nose flat base bullet as the ammo available? Also, bullets differ in diameter - looking at Hornady 9 manual, for 303 British, they show bullets .310", .3105", and .312". I have some Woodleigh .312". Sierra V manual shows .311" for their bullets. And so on.
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- Location
- Western Manitoba
8mm = .31496" Were these the ones that you meant?? (stolen from Wikipedia):
The IOF .315 sporting rifle is a civilian version of the British military Lee–Enfield rifle, chambered in the 8×50mmR Mannlicher cartridge rather than the .303 British military cartridge due to Indian gun control laws.
The rifle is manufactured at Ordnance Factory Uttar Pradesh which manufactured Lee–Enfield rifles for the British colonial Indian Army and post-independence Indian forces. It's also made in Rifle Factory Ishapore.
It has a box-type magazine which holds 5 rounds and uses an 8 mm cartridge based on the 8x50mmR Mannlicher, but is loaded with hunting-type bullets rather than military ones.
Thanks for the replies. I did some more looking and found that even though the rifling in the barrel looks ok, there is no rifling at all in the muzzle. the muzzle is rough and rusty. Seeing that it is already sporterized and the bolt is not matching, I am going to give up on this one completely. I don't think it would be a great sin to cut the barrel back to the front sight and see if it makes a difference. If not, i may just get my money back on the few parts that are there.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
No rifling - that was apparently often due to sloppy use of cleaning rod into muzzle that allowed dirty rod to rub against rifling at muzzle and wear it away. Also, British often use a cord pull through - same thing - grit and grunge on dirty cord - cord allowed to rub against muzzle edge and wear it away. May or may not be worth your while to have it "back bored" - some amount of barrel wall drilled back - to where rifling is good - essentially creates a new "crown" and muzzle, back inside the barrel, while the outside looks untouched.
Does not always work - I have a pretty grim looking No. 4 barrel - I sawed it off back to about 20" long - same crap - rifling is still well worn or well corroded away. Hard to get an accurate measure with 5 groove rifling, but, as you describe, in my case a .308" bullet goes all the way in, that is too big, whatever the real number might be!!!
Does not always work - I have a pretty grim looking No. 4 barrel - I sawed it off back to about 20" long - same crap - rifling is still well worn or well corroded away. Hard to get an accurate measure with 5 groove rifling, but, as you describe, in my case a .308" bullet goes all the way in, that is too big, whatever the real number might be!!!
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No rifling at muzzle?
Remember, Lee-Speed had Metford rifling which washed-out pretty fast with Cordite Mark I.
Add to that "cord wear" from sloppy cleaning and you have a recipe for troubles.
Cost-effective and fast would be to gauge how far down you have to go to find rifling, then counterbore to that depth.
Also, you may not want to start casting your own bullets, but there are guys who will do it for you.... for a consideration.
Almost anything is preferable to parting-out a century-old rifle.
Remember, Lee-Speed had Metford rifling which washed-out pretty fast with Cordite Mark I.
Add to that "cord wear" from sloppy cleaning and you have a recipe for troubles.
Cost-effective and fast would be to gauge how far down you have to go to find rifling, then counterbore to that depth.
Also, you may not want to start casting your own bullets, but there are guys who will do it for you.... for a consideration.
Almost anything is preferable to parting-out a century-old rifle.
I counter-bored a commercial version of the Charger Loading Long Lee that had very severe pitting but only at the muzzle. About 1.5" depth was required to lose the pitting. The remaining bore is very good and the rifle groups better than my other Long Lees. For a gunsmith this would be a trivial little job. I did it myself by setting up a jig to hold the barreled action vertically below my pillar drill. The steel is quite soft and drills easily. Certainly worth doing before giving up on it.
milsurpo
milsurpo
