Lee Speed Questions- Pic Heavy warning

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farshot

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Hey guys - I need some help to try and identify and discuss a Lee Speed that I picked up recently.

it is a Lee Speed BSA stamped with no other markings on the strap.
It has a bbl length of 23.8 inch or so (I think it has been bobbed)

Metford (I think) rifling that looks quite tired but I dont know what tired Metford rifling looks like.

Dust cover and cutoff intact, full stock with small handguard, brass butt plate, a grooved trigger.

The bbl and fame numbers (and Bolt) match - but there is a number on the top of the strap (just under/beside where the bolt slides back) that is different??

10 round chained mag

front sight protector in place

no engraving or rib etc.

From their 1912 cateloge - I think this was a standard type Service Magazine style rifle - not approved by the Crown.

I cannot find the BSA stacked rifle mark -- but there are little Crown marks and what appears to be cross swords or arrows stamps ??

It has the volley sights still, the rear shows an "arrow with WD " and a crown with crossed something -- arrows?

On the bottom rear ofthe bbl there are various numbers "12", "R", "C", "2"

there are no masses of government stamps or other marks.

there is no safety on the bolt or anywhere else.

The bolt knob is oblong, but off center oblong ... with the outer edges nicely knurled tho.

I think the front wood was bobbed as well with the front band re-inletted into the stock (about a 90% looking job - just a little ragged) and the bayonet lug ground down (sigh)

sadly, the stock has been sanded down quite a bit I think - it seems delicate to me and the bottom of the mag well metal is visible

rear sight is a leaf/ ladder service type.

I am no expert on these at all

What might this have been at one time?

I looked throught he BSA cateloge and think it was one of their overseas service type rifles that has been shortened at one time.

Is there value to these in this type of condition?

o yes - someone drilled little holes to meet the rim of the round - I expect to vent gases:
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thanks
 
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Probably a "range rifle" Military style Matches required a service rifle length but SMLE's were in short supply, early in the century, so in order to compete, Long Lee's were shortened to smle length.
 
Those drilled holeswere there from manufacture. On US rifles, they are called a "Hatcher Hole" after the Hatcher who wrote "Hatcher's Notebook" and who fixed the brittle receiver blowup problems on the Springfield rifle.

Brit rifles use the same principle, but I don't recall what they called the holes they drilled.

In either event, it's proper.
 
Friend, there was no safety at all on the Lee-Metford Mark II apart from the half-#### notch.

A "Lee-Speed" IS a Lee-Metford Mark II made by the Birmingham Small Arms and Munitions Company, otherwise known as BSA or, at that time, BSA&M. Rifles made directly for the military, on Government contracts, were marked properly with the approved Government markings. It was ONLY the rifles for civilian use which were marked as Lee-Speeds. However, the Army was pretty broke at that time and there were a lot of Fencibles and Militias and Yeomanries and so forth which had to buy their own rifles if they wanted to play. Being as he rifles were not on Government contracts, they bought quantities of the civilian models: Lee-Speeds.

LEE, of course, was James Paris Lee, the world-famous CANADIAN gun designer who (like everyone else) had to move to the USA before he was taken seriously. SPEED was the plant manager at Enfield. He was responsible for several improvements on the basic Lee design, including the final version of the bolthead. You MAY find patent dates on your bolthead. Check them out and you will find they are patents in Speed's name and assigned to the Government.

Your barrel should be a proper METFORD barrel. Segmental rifling, seven lands and grooves..... and they looked shot-out the day they left the factory. They can shoot REALLY well with cast bullets, by the way, being designed for such in the first place. Metford was a famous rifle-shot of the period and also a designer. His rifling as used on your rifle originally was designed for easy cleaning when shot with Black powder....... which the .303 cartridge used for its first 4 years of production. Only problem with Metford rifling was that Cordite Mark I, which was rather horridly erosive, burned the leades out of the rifles in short order. The Metford rifling was replaced in 1895 with ENFIELD rifling (5 lands and grooves, deep grooves, concentric, lands and grooves of equal width, very nearly impossible to shoot out with modern propellants)..... which also was designed by....... Metford.

When the SMLE came into use after 1901 there was for a while a conversion program for some of the older rifles to bring them up (or possibly down) to SMLE standards. They looked very much like your rifle. A fair number of rifles looking just like yours, but in .22"RF calibre, were used for many years.

I would think that what you have is a commercial Lee-Metford Mark II which has been shortened to SMLE specs, quite possibly done about 1903/4. It would have the advantage of being to Short rifle length and thus able to compete against the Short rifle in competition...... while preserving the advantage of that heavy barrel..... which the Short rifle lacked.

A very NEAT specimen.

It would look MUCH better on my rack, you know!

Have fun!

Hope this helps.
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Thank you Smellie - I have read your posts in the past and knew you would show up with a very well written post. I knew some of what you spoke of, but as always, the extra knowlege is great to have.

I have never been a British rifle guy - but have slowly been seeing the joy of these rifles.

There are patent marks on the bolt head - but they are either worn or still filled with that black paint like material that is still scattered on the rifle.

I especially appreciated your comment re the Metford rifling - it looking worn from the factory - hahaha -- I wondered about that, and it is good to have it confirmed. Maybe it is time for loading 303 cast...

It is a 7 land and groove bbl - it is relatively shiney and smooth looking with no pitting, but the patches keep coming out black, so we shall see where it ends up.
 
When you start loading cast bullets in the old girl,try the C.E. Harris "Universal" load. Harris used 13 grains of Red Dot shotgun powder and found that it worked pretty good in MOST full-sized military rifles, including the .303s. It gives about 1800 ft/sec MV, which is actually slow enough that you really don't need to use gas-checks (unless the rifle wants them; it will let you know). Lee makes a pretty decent mold for this; you can order from Lee Factory Sales for $19.70 plus shipping.... if you're willing to hassle with the Canadian Gummint, which wants that GST they always say they are going to get rid of.

Buffdog uses this load for 200-yard gopher-sniping, so it definitely has something going for it.

For loading with jacketed bullets, I would suggest that Hornady 174 round-nose, seated as far forward as you can get it, with 37 grains of 4895. A bit mild, yes, but my rifles like it.... and yours is even older than most of mine, so it should like it, too.

Do have fun!

You have a FINE toy!
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Very nifty old rifle, with a whole bagful of history attached! PLUS - it has been blessed by smellie.:p

I came across an old Lee of some sort, and thought the safety was missing, but - smellie to the rescue, and likely Buffdog - there never was a safety on this particular rifle.

Good catch, and enjoy!!:)
 
Wheaty - there are no marks on the left side of the socket.

Smellie - thank you so much for that load data. Especialy since I have never taken up casting - the jacketed loads may prove to be the most useful.

Thank you all.

fs
 
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