Left Handed New Shooter

Coyote Tech 421 is right.
The slide release should NEVER be used by the firing hand unless firing one handed and required to reload. The support hand should be doing all the work. Sling shoting is the fastest and easiest way as well as the most reliable way to get your gun back up. THe Sig series of pistols were designed for LEFT HANDED SHOOTERS. Using your trigger finger to decock and eject the magazine was the intended purpose of the control locations. Again, the mag release should be operated by your support hand, not the firing hand, even though most of us cheat and use our firing hand. This is the same reason why most people cannot reach the mag relase on a Glock with their firing hand(right hand). The Glock was deigned this way.

CF
 
But, on a Sig, I literally can not reach the decocking lever with my trigger finger, without seriously compromising my grip. I think the decock lever on a Sig is for righties only.

cannonfodder said:
Coyote Tech 421 is right.
The slide release should NEVER be used by the firing hand unless firing one handed and required to reload. The support hand should be doing all the work. Sling shoting is the fastest and easiest way as well as the most reliable way to get your gun back up. THe Sig series of pistols were designed for LEFT HANDED SHOOTERS. Using your trigger finger to decock and eject the magazine was the intended purpose of the control locations. Again, the mag release should be operated by your support hand, not the firing hand, even though most of us cheat and use our firing hand. This is the same reason why most people cannot reach the mag relase on a Glock with their firing hand(right hand). The Glock was deigned this way.

CF
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cannonfodder said:
The Sig series of pistols were designed for LEFT HANDED SHOOTERS.
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Hmmm...that seems a little odd to me—why would SIG design their line of pistols for 10% of the shooting population? I have no doubt that the pistols can be used in the manner you've described, and perhaps shooting them left handed does work better than right handed, but I'm thinking that's a fortunate coincidence rather than design intention.
 
Let me clarify. The design of the gun was intended to be left hand friendly. The location of the controls were meant to be left hand friendly while still remaing functional(and quite functional) for right handed shooters as well. I mislead you when I said it was "designed for left handed shooters". There are in fact almost 40% left handed shooters(left hand dominant) atleast that's what the latest guesstimate indicates. Not quite the oddity it once was.

Uncle walther,
I undertstand you must compromise your grip to use the decocker, but at the point where you are decocking, you no longer need your firing grip, you are finished shooting(atleast you should be). it is still a bit awkward but definitely functional.

CF
 
cannonfodder said:
Let me clarify. The design of the gun was intended to be left hand friendly. The location of the controls were meant to be left hand friendly while still remaing functional(and quite functional) for right handed shooters as well. I mislead you when I said it was "designed for left handed shooters". There are in fact almost 40% left handed shooters(left hand dominant) atleast that's what the latest guesstimate indicates. Not quite the oddity it once was.

Uncle walther,
I undertstand you must compromise your grip to use the decocker, but at the point where you are decocking, you no longer need your firing grip, you are finished shooting(atleast you should be). it is still a bit awkward but definitely functional.

CF
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Thanks for the clarification! That's quite interesting, too— I would not have guessed 40% (but then again looking at the number of regulars who have posted in this thread I should've guessed!)
 
I'm a leftie & I shot pistols set up for right handed persons [i.e the venerable 1911] for many years before ambi-controls became vogue with no issues. ;)

I also currently have a Glock 22 in .40 S&W that I've managed to put over 25,000 rounds thru despite my left handedness. :cool:
 
huh? never use the slide release? you do know why it's called a slide release right? again this is a Glock invention, due to the fact that first gen Glocks had slide releases of such small surface area and were hard to release reliably Glock trainers came up with the grasp the slide and release technique. And yes this is documented by old Glock instructors. It is not faster, in fact you are now dedicating your weak hand to another job, that your strong could be doing while you are getting your weak hand back into the proper position.
However on most new semi auto's seating the mag with a good enough smack should drop the slide, but do not rely on this, and get used to either using the slide release as it was intended to be used for, or if need be and your hands don't reach, using your weak hand to either hit the slide release or grasp the slide, pull rearward and release. The single biggest problem with the grasping method is people riding the slide forward and causing a feed jam. So if you are going to train for that kind of release, make sure it becomes second nature to you and practice it a lot. The slide release is there for a reason. And tactically there are a ton of reasons to not use your weak hand to grasp the slide, like if you are now battling an opponent, or having to manipulate a door, or another device.
 
The technique is in use with SigArms Academy, where I received my training. Due to high adrenaline levels and the loss of fine motor skills using the sling shot method is faster and will be more reliable than using the slide release. By using the sling shot method, you are compressing your recoil spring a little more thus providing extra forward momentum for stripping that first round. Try using the release on a wet gun with gloves. Also, the sling shot method is identical for all pistols, therefore eliminating the learning curve when using other makes and models.

If you're opening a door you should not be doing so with an unloaded pistol. The gun must be ready to fire to be of any use. If you're battling an appponent than its too late to be worrying about a reload. I feel its time to use your firearm as a club. Also, please explain to me how you would do a reload effectively with one hand while you manipulate another object/item?

When you mention slamming the mag to release the slide you are referring to placing your thumb on the slide release?(actaully its called a slide lock) Should this be the case, than that is an old IPSC trick. We know where the P in IPSC is....... Hey, if it works go with it, but you said it yourself, it shouldn't be something you rely on. I know the slide will close when I grasp it and slingshot it forward. By slingshot, I mean grasp, retract, and RELEASE. Thoise who ride the slide, deserve what they get. Same problem with those who limp wrist. If they do it, they do it. They'll soon learn its not a good idea.

CF
 
Sig for lefties

UncleWalther said:
But, on a Sig, I literally can not reach the decocking lever with my trigger finger, without seriously compromising my grip. I think the decock lever on a Sig is for righties only.
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I have to agree with UncleWalther that Sigs are very lefty unfriendly. As a lefty, my experience with the Sig has shown that I have to tilt the gun so far forward to reach the decocker, there is a good chance of dropping the pistol. You can use your trigger finger for the mag release, but the slide stop and decocker are just too far back to manipulate safely and properly. Sig has devised different techniques for lefties that lead you to believe that weak hand manipulation of the controls are normal (and they have to, to be competitive in the market place), but all controls should be able to be manipulated with the strong hand , if need be. The fact remains that this is a right handed gun, and while lefties can settle for a SIG, WHY?, when there are more user friendly guns out there for us lefties ex. HK USP, Beretta, S&W 3rd gen, to name a few. When you have to adapt to a gun where two out of the three controls are way out of reach, I think there are better options. I have a great respect for Sigs and seriously considered one, but can't justify paying a premium price for a gun that does not fit me.
 
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strangely enough it was an Sig Academy instructor that taught me as well, and he has since moved on from Sig as well. He disagreed with a lot of Sig Academies training methods and used the ones that he used for years, long before Sig Academy existed, or Glock for that matter. the idea of the fine motor movements under stress and gross movements under stress is such an (and pardon this I am not directing this at you Cannonfodder) idiotic bit of reasoning it's not even funny. These instructors will stand there and tell you that fine motor movements will break down under stress, but will then expect you to find and grasp the slide, retract it, and release it. that's not a gross motor skill that's a fine one. Hitting the slide release/lock is more of a gross motor skill than grasping a slide, as you are doing one thing, pressing down on the lever. Further more, if fine motor skills are suddenly abandoned during stress, how do they expect you to be able to line up the front sight, rear sight, and target. And even more importantly how do they expect you to do the finest movement of them all, pulling the trigger properly? It's all BS first started by Glock to compensate for their undersized slide release levers. Something that was later fixed.
And the trick I use isn't hitting the release at all, it's simply seating the mags with a good snap, just the force of that drops the slide. And it works on Glocks, Sigs, Smiths you name it. Most pistols won't do it when brand new, but some will. But after a few thousand rounds most will do it just fine.
The single biggest thing though is to train, and train the same way every time. If you are going to grasp, train, if you are using the release, train. train train train, until you could do it while on fire.
 
I agree on the training, it is the key to successfully executing any technique. In regards to loss of fine motor skills, it is not BS. Fine motor skills relates to operating, small muscles or small muscle groups in relation to tedious or specific tasks. Grasping the slide, is a lot easier to do with 5 digits than using a release with one. larger object to grasp(not just swipe or push) and more strength to do it with when using all 5 digits. Not to mention you're still building off the same skill set used to execute TRB drills, loading, and unloading via cycling the slide. Minimize your movements, maximize your muscle memory.

AS far as using your fine motor skills for sight alignment and sight picture is concerned, I agree with you. However, should you not train enough to use your sights under stress, there is a technique known as point shooting, or reflex shooting. Hand eye coordination is what it is. I do most of my shooting without sights, I think they're over rated. Good for distance work but inside 20 yards, I use point shooting. Much faster, much easier. This of course requires constant practice to remain proficient. Keep in mind that most LE shootings involved dominant hand only and unsighted fire as the order of the day.

CF
 
sorry disagree and had an instructor who was a doctor in Sports Medicine/Kinesiology talk all about "fine motor control" and stress etc. complete and utter bull#### spread by one firearms company, and then picked up as bylines by instructors everywhere. It doesn't hold any merit under scrutiny and has never, ever been proven in case studies. Every movement you do with your hands is "fine" and natural to human beings. Using your weak hand to grasp the slide and release it during a reload is a waste of time and energy, and prevents you from getting back into the fight as fast as possible.
 
pressing down on the slide release lever is faster. With week hand or strong hand thumb. (ie: ran dry and your slide is locked back, dump mag and insert fresh one, A -as your weak hand comes back to grip use your weak hand thumb, to press down on the lever, or B- use your strong hand thumb to press down if it is within reach.
As for ambi controls, I though most mainstream firearms makers had left hand options? (ie: HK has ambi slide release on some pistols as well as ambi mag release and optional ambi control lever, and I think they may have a lefty control lever).
 
Slavex,
Your informative points put aside. Please tell me what shooters with weak hands or small hands, or those shooting with wet hands/gloves or guns should do? Using your release may work for you, but does it work for everyone? NO it doesn't. Explain to me why Walther's(p99) and Springfield's ( XD) slide release is the same narrow profile as those on Glocks? Seeing as how the loss of fine motor skills is a myth, why would companies continue to follow the same design? Beretta and 1911 slide releases aren't even that prominant, nor is that of the CZ with its rounded edges, hell, Sig's slide release insn't even in a user friendly location, andits still low profile! The only maker with a reasonable size release is HK, on their USP series. Explain to me how one digit pressing in a downward motion, is providing a more positive response than all five digits as well as your arm and upper body when retracting and releasing the slide which is a larger target to identify, find and manipulate than the slide release?

Further to the point, and not to discredit the mans credentials. Has this doctor ever been in a gunfight? My source has, and so have many other fellow instructors and all came to the same conclusion. The slide is big and easy to find under stress... Oh and it works evertime on all autos. Not to mention it cuts down on new skill sets and re-enforces those same skills used during a reload as well as a malfunction. Less to learn, less to remember, less to forget...

CF
 
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I shoot my wife's Glock as a lefty, no problemo. 1911 with an amib safety works OK too, but it is a bear from the leather w/o the ambi safety. Mag release, slide lock, et al run OK with a lefty, since we never learned to do it with our non-left hand. (No reason to call the hand opposing your left hand 'right', is there?)
 
without going into the fine details, look at your own argument, you are stating that a slide is significantly larger target for your hand than the slide release, it's not. On the scale of hand operated equipment a slide, slide lock/release, trigger, grip, magazine button etc all fall under the same criteria for difficulty to use, yet you, and those who teach the way you're advocating, would have us believe that we will suddenly not be able to operate the slide release. if that's the case, trigger fingers will fail, you won't be able to hit the mag release button, you won't be able to swap mags, especially if you try and do a tactical reload with retention. it's ridiculous to the extreme to even contemplate that. Prior to the existence of Glock everyone used the slide release lever.
And the lever on Walther's et all are not the same profile as the original Glock lever, they are the same as the current Glock lever, which I think is at least model number 3. The first one was basically flush to the slide.
further the skill set argument is such a red herring it's funny. And yes this particular instructor has seen combat, numerous times. And so has the other instructor I trained with their aren't many instructors out there that can come close to him for experience,

Director of Federal Law Enforcement and Military Sales at Smith and Wesson
Chief Instructor, U.S. Marine Corps Scout Sniper School
Head Instructor, U.S. Marine Corps High Risk Personnel Course
Law Enforcement Operations Supervisor and Technical Advisor, Beretta USA
National Sales Manager, Triton Ammunition

Certifications
Beretta Factory Armorer School
NRA Law Enforcement Instructor (pistol, shotgun, subgun)
FBI Firearms Instructor Course
Rogers Tactical Shooting School (advanced handgun rating)
Various certifications from Gunsite, Chapman Academy, DTI (John Farnam), M.I.S.S. (John Shaw), Jerry Barnhart
USMC Scout Sniper and Scout Sniper Instructor Schools
USMC Small Arms Weapons Instructor School
USMC Advanced Close Quarters Battle Team School
US Army Ranger School
US Army Anti-Terrorism Instructor School
US Army Airborne & Military Free Fall Parachutist School
US Navy SCUBA School

he's walked the walk, talked the talk, and gotten confirmed kills doing it. He knows about stress under fire, he knows about manipulating small parts under stress, and he's been around long enough to watch a new idea become a so called "standard" with the misinformed.
 
Slavex,
You still haven't answered the question, in regards to the size of the slide relase on other makers guns(I would review some pics of these fireams before stating that their release levers are large and priminant) . Nor have you answered why SIG has their release in a less than ideal location. You have failed to answer my question in regards to shooters with weak, small, wet, or gloved hands.

The slide is indeed a larger target. The blind can figure that out. I don't know how you can say the release is the same size as the slide, or similar in size. again, please tell me how one digit has more strength than all five plus arm and upper body? In defence of the mag release, I use my support hand to drop the mag free. The argument about the trigger is complete nonsense. However one's trigger control can and usually is affeced by high stress shooting. That's why we practice.

CF
 
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