Legal actions, Go Fund Me etc.

[Jefferson]

very well said

as a retired lawyer that did way to much litigation can say this was not an easy,choice, the repercussions from this lawsuit
will haunt those folks involved for the rest of their collective lives

this was not an easy decision that was reached overnight

Rick, the rest of the crew and the rest of us have been dealing with the corrupt govt, the corrupt import/export agencies for many decades

I remember when a friend was exporting a Dan Wesson overseas and was hoodwinked in the process after meeting with the customs folks on more than one occasion


I had a anschutz exemplar taken by the feds after getting a new stock for competition put on from the USA, permits were obtained both ways and included in the case

they took it and I had to get the local rcmp, the local map involved as they declared it a short barrelled shotgun

Oh and by the way it had the original factory 22 long rifle barrel on it as determined by their forensic lab,

the govt is a joke

I tried to get the customs lady fired for 2 years until the visit from the rcmp tax squad member just out for s]a drive

and that is just the tip of the iceberg on lack of understanding of the laws by the folks in,charge

hope he succeeds and still keeps his sanity and sense of humour

Rick is one of the good guys


posted with the greatest of respect

Jefferson

Please be patient, and realize that it's not that we don't WANT to tell you EVERYTHING, but that nobody has ever won a hand of poker with their cards facing up.

The ipolitics.ca article suggests there's some sort of a rift between us and the CCFR action, and that is so far from the case. We left that action out of necessity, but with open offers to assist in anyway possible.

The CCFR case is monumental, it is enormous, and they are challenging the entire legality of the OIC, and the governments ability to infringe upon our rights and freedoms. It's an incredibly important fight and I don't wish to detract anything from the importance of that battle, but it will be years upon years, likely the better half of a decade tied up in court.

We had to react quickly to recent events, that I'm not at liberty to discuss, and look out for ours, and our customers immediate interests.

If greed was the motivation as your post implies, we would never have started in THIS industry to begin with.

 

[CP 5.3]

This is great news. Hope ATRS wins!

What will happen to all those MS receivers (that were on EE, website) sold after May 1st?

 

[Cameron SS]

So many gun owners sit idly by and risk nothing, do nothing to fight the gun ban other than pine away online. And when a business gets particularly targetted for administrative martyrdom and lawyers up the naysayers come out and turn on ATRS like they are the bad guy and the ban was their idea.

Incredible.

Wosh you all the best ATRS. Get as much out of them as you possibly can.

 

[GoldPrime]

I hope the lawsuit goes well, but I feel for people who haven't got their receiver sets yet. I'm guessing their wait is going to get a whole lot longer.

 

[TopShelf97]

I hope the lawsuit goes well, but I feel for people who haven't got their receiver sets yet. I'm guessing their wait is going to get a whole lot longer.

If its true that the RCMP/CFO is demanding ATRS to hand over their post-ban invoices, getting your receiver should be the least of your worries.

If the CFO gets those invoices, a lot of people will be in big trouble.

Instead of targetting criminals who own illegal guns, the government is targetting legal gun owners and turning them into criminals.

 

[no-one special]

I did not get the impression the CFO wanted just post May1 2020 info. My understanding was that they want ALL records regarding the entire Modern series of rifles seeing as all now have illegally altered FRTs. To me this is simply a fishing expedition by a new CFO trying to ascertain who has what so as to make confiscation easier in the future.
Keep in mind ATRS made more than Hunters, Varmints and Sporters. They probably were one of the bigger manufacturer, importer, dealers for 50s and such. I know Rick rebuilt and sold quite a few 20mm rifles as well, all of these are now prohibited but the government would have no clue at all who has them or where so a shopping list would make things real handy for them.

I don't know of many guys who would be willing to take jail time for others, Rick however is risking exactly that.

 

[hannibal.black98]

If its true that the RCMP/CFO is demanding ATRS to hand over their post-ban invoices, getting your receiver should be the least of your worries.

If the CFO gets those invoices, a lot of people will be in big trouble.

Instead of targetting criminals who own illegal guns, the government is targetting legal gun owners and turning them into criminals.

Why?

The RCMP updating FRTs has no legal standing...

 

[P of PDent]

I know Rick won't have a problem with me posting in his section as we might be competitors but fighting this unfair and oppressive action by the Libs, we are all brothers. I have been in contact with Rick during his recent struggles and with my current position with the Alberta Firearms Advisory Committee they were made aware both privately and then publicly during the recent townhall meetings. I can't control how the new Chief Firearms Officer will deal with his personal situation in the future but hope this might bring some common sense to the application of the existing rules. Phil.

 

[Thunderhog]

So, you believe pulling out of a court battle concerning canadian gun rights to personaly sue for millions in damges is about gun rights? I like how you went strait to insults, really helps your intellect shine.

 

[brit84]

So modern sporter records have been handed over, or not yet?
How long do they have to be legally held? Its getting cold in the north and fire is warm.

Sorry if I missed prior info

 

[All in fun]

https://ipolitics.ca/2020/11/27/alb...llenge-launches-court-action-for-70m-himself/

So are the donations now going to fight a court action for 70 million instead of fighting for the lawful right to keep our guns?

You seem to have an uninformed opinion of what is happening. I suggest you consult with your own attorney to try and get an understanding of the very many possible issues at play here.

 

[Cameron SS]

Why?

The RCMP updating FRTs has no legal standing...

You dont seem to grasp what is at stake.

The rcmp believes atrs firearms are prohib. The frt was changed may 27th. The rcmp believe that they were prohibited as of may 1st. From may 1 to may 26 atrs may have been selling firearms that the atrs thought were NR and the frt said was NR but the RCMP thought were prohib. Not only would the people who bought them after May 1st not be covered under the amnesty but atrs could be accused of trafficking. Handing over their sales records would expose all of their customers to significant liability.

And the fact that the frt is not law means atrs can not rely on it as a defense, or at least thats what the crown will argue.

 

[jg007]

You dont seem to grasp what is at stake.

The rcmp believes atrs firearms are prohib. The frt was changed may 27th. The rcmp believe that they were prohibited as of may 1st. From may 1 to may 26 atrs may have been selling firearms that the atrs thought were NR and the frt said was NR but the RCMP thought were prohib. Not only would the people who bought them after May 1st not be covered under the amnesty but atrs could be accused of trafficking. Handing over their sales records would expose all of their customers to significant liability.

And the fact that the frt is not law means atrs can not rely on it as a defense, or at least thats what the crown will argue.

I’m confused...

Isn’t the Alberta cfo claiming the frt is law and proceeding against atrs based on that?
If the frt is not law / the crown uses that argument to not allow sales between may1-27 and going forward, don’t they have to explain why this wasn’t named in the oic/why the rcmp deemed this NOT a variant earlier and now define the nebulous term “and modified versions”. the Modern sported is not an ar15 or a variant, so how it could be a modified version of one?

 

[Ironheart]

You dont seem to grasp what is at stake.

The rcmp believes atrs firearms are prohib. The frt was changed may 27th. The rcmp believe that they were prohibited as of may 1st. From may 1 to may 26 atrs may have been selling firearms that the atrs thought were NR and the frt said was NR but the RCMP thought were prohib. Not only would the people who bought them after May 1st not be covered under the amnesty but atrs could be accused of trafficking. Handing over their sales records would expose all of their customers to significant liability.

Are the CFO/RCMP asking for these sales records?

As a NR firearm/receiver, there is no law in place that any business has to keep record of sales, all the business needs to do is check that buyers PAL is valid with the CFO , they better not be keeping personal records of who bought what

 

[Jefferson]

for over a decade some businesses have been told to keep the records by the alberta cfo office, I was standing there on 2 occasions

also sometimes I ran into Alberta cfo office employees at the place of business copying the books of purchase signatures

much going on,behind the scenes please don’t assume businesses are handing over personal info on a whim

You dont seem to grasp what is at stake.

The rcmp believes atrs firearms are prohib. The frt was changed may 27th. The rcmp believe that they were prohibited as of may 1st. From may 1 to may 26 atrs may have been selling firearms that the atrs thought were NR and the frt said was NR but the RCMP thought were prohib. Not only would the people who bought them after May 1st not be covered under the amnesty but atrs could be accused of trafficking. Handing over their sales records would expose all of their customers to significant liability.

Are the CFO/RCMP asking for these sales records?

As a NR firearm/receiver, there is no law in place that any business has to keep record of sales, all the business needs to do is check that buyers PAL is valid with the CFO , they better not be keeping personal records of who bought what

 

[Cameron SS]

I’m confused...

Isn’t the Alberta cfo claiming the frt is law and proceeding against atrs based on that?
If the frt is not law / the crown uses that argument to not allow sales between may1-27 and going forward, don’t they have to explain why this wasn’t named in the oic/why the rcmp deemed this NOT a variant earlier and now define the nebulous term “and modified versions”. the Modern sported is not an ar15 or a variant, so how it could be a modified version of one?

To the extent that I have not seen any documents from any of the parties, I can't tell what the CFO is or is not claiming.

People need to stop saying this nonsense about whether the FRT is or is not law.

Is your drivers license LAW? no. Does it legally matter if you have one? yes. Does it legally matter what your drivers license authorizes you to do? Yes. Does it legally matter if the car you drive doesn't match what your license authorizes? yes. Are there laws that govern the issuance of licenses? yes?

The FRT matters, in law. Whether the FRT is itself the law or not is mostly irrelevant. The law says certain firearms are prohibited. The RCMP say certain ATRS firearms are prohibited under the law. They say this in a variety of ways, including in the FRT. ATRS says that the FRT is how the RCMP communicates its legal opinions to the public, and there is no other effective mechanism for doing so.

We do not know, and I do not expect to find out anytime soon, exactly what the RCMP are trying to do and what ATRS has done in response. We will have to be patient and simply trust that ATRS is thinking first and foremost about their employees, their families, their customers, and the broader firearms community, in that order, and are going to take all reasonable steps to protect those parties.

You dont seem to grasp what is at stake.

The rcmp believes atrs firearms are prohib. The frt was changed may 27th. The rcmp believe that they were prohibited as of may 1st. From may 1 to may 26 atrs may have been selling firearms that the atrs thought were NR and the frt said was NR but the RCMP thought were prohib. Not only would the people who bought them after May 1st not be covered under the amnesty but atrs could be accused of trafficking. Handing over their sales records would expose all of their customers to significant liability.

Are the CFO/RCMP asking for these sales records?

As a NR firearm/receiver, there is no law in place that any business has to keep record of sales, all the business needs to do is check that buyers PAL is valid with the CFO , they better not be keeping personal records of who bought what

We don't really know what the RCMP has asked for. Only what people have commented on.

There is no law requiring the keeping of sales records specifically connecting an individual to a specific firearm, however if those records exist, and every business does keep sales records as its a requirement of various provincial and federal tax codes, than the RCMP can demand those records.

if you don't want your personal information stored by the business who is selling you products, than you better be paying in cash. Every point of sale system I've seen connects a credit card number with a sales invoice, and the sales invoice itemizes the product, and where the product is a firearm, the unit number (normally serial number) of the firearm is connected.

Its not 1984 any more. Big Brother is on computers now. Cash is still king.

 

[cdndfs]

I wish Rick luck. This action by the government is frankly not a surprise. Did anyone really think the RCMP would just let ATRS continue selling rifles they deem prohibited unimpeded?

Guys like Rick at the only people that give me any hope. Unfortunately they are few and far between.

Freedom is on the downturn and the average Canadian is too pampered, ignorant or stupid to realize it.

Even in the US, we’re seeing messaging around COVID that freedom and an independent spirit is the problem. It’s time for you to do as your told.

It is incredible to me that after the body count of the 20th century, that we could again be heading in this same direction once again.

 

[xURSOx]

I'd like to personally thank ARTS and all staff for standing up for their customers and the community as a whole.

I wish you guys all the best!

 

[b-wingpilot]

There is no law requiring the keeping of sales records specifically connecting an individual to a specific firearm.

But there is a requirement by the CFO to keep those sales records. If you don't want to keep them, then you do not get a Business Firearms License.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

So modern sporter records have been handed over, or not yet?
How long do they have to be legally held? Its getting cold in the north and fire is warm.

Sorry if I missed prior info

NO they have not been handed over and won't be. I will probably end up in jail for not complying to release many peoples personal info however.
THIS is exactly the reason for the action, and total infringement on personal info and property rights.

Edited for clarity. The records of transactions we DO have to keep are for tax reasons only. Restricted firearms purchases by law are recorded in an rcmP owned and issued book. This they have unfettered access to and no gun shop has an option there.

NR sales require no book or record, but sales invoices are generated as tax records and must be retained as per CRA rules.