**Legal info for short pump action shotguns**

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PEI ROB

PEI ROB

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If the firearm is on the restricted list, then it is at least restricted.
If the firearm is on the prohibited list, then it is prohibited.
Check the list.

Definitions from the Firearm's Act, copied and pasted, red is highlighted words, green is my words.

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"handgun"

"handgun" means a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands; Pump action shotguns are designed and intended to be fired using both hands simultaneously.


"prohibited firearm" means
( a) a handgun that
(i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or
(ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,
but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,
( b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,
(i) is less than 660 mm in length , or
(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,
( c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or
( d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm;
This means firearms not manufactured under license. If it legally came from the factory that way and it isn't on either list then it is non-restricted. If you make the modifications, it will be illegal.

"restricted firearm" means
( a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,
( b) a firearm that
(i) is not a prohibited firearm,
(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and
(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner, Obviously this means a short semi not a short pump.
( c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise , or This means changing the length of stock by any method. A factory originally installed pistol grip is not an adaptation nor can its lenght be changed, therefore a factory installed pistol grip is not applicable. In this point, the grip cannot be a retrofit of any type, it must be the original configuration.
( d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm;
 
The 37 was manufactured under license but the stakeout is an adapted variant of the 37, not the original design. The Dlask 8.5 is all new design according to the CFC, don't ruin it by giving them ideas.

Cheers
 
holy crap ponts, relax. theres nothing wrong with people researching this for themselves, there is no solid rule that its legal yet (but at the same time, no solid rule its not, and its been authorized to some extent by the RCMP which makes it legal as far as we know).
 
+1 Ponts.

The laws are already written. This gun has been inspected in accordance with them, as applied by the RCMP, the legal authority in this matter. The FRT and non-restricted classification is the result of this.

But for all you armchair lawyers and politicians, dont buy one if you are one of those that figure they know better.

Dont buy one if you figure you can do stupid stuff with it because of its size or classification either. That will give the anti's more ammunition to screw us all over with. In fact dont buy any gun. It only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.

That way, maybe the next responsible firearm owner that does want one of these for any number of reason, or none at all, wont have to try for an hour to get through to place an order with the manufacturer (like I did) who is busting their butts to fill all the orders that have been placed.

And then, if nobody actually acts like a thug with them, maybe all us happy gun owners can enjoy our pastimes in peace.


PFFT!!! Who am I kidding!

Good things never last here. If you want one, get it while you can I say.

Just my $0.02.

Ahh... I feel much better now that I got all that out. thanks for the opportunity to rant!
 
To all of you who have taken the time to actually read the law, thank you.
:cheers: :shotgun:

To all you :confused: naysayers, please either read the law or STFU. Thank you.
 
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My 14" Hp9 with 1rd mag extension is plenty short. Anything beyond 25 yards and it really opens up; I can only imagine how an 8.5 will open up.
 
I hear you Maurice.

Currently I am packing a 14" when I go hiking. Its good enough. I had one before and sold it though because I wanted to go even shorter. I found that with 00, my hits were too few for my liking, even at fairly close range when I was testing it out. So I went back to a 14" barrel. I think it makes a huge difference. Oh! And my 12" had an IC choke in it too!

That was all on the logic of loading 3 slugs and then 1 00 buck.

With the SMD12 that I have one the way, I will only be using slugs in it when I go hiking. I dont expect shot to work worth a damn in it. But I am buying it with that expectation.

If it happens to perform even halfways acceptable I will be pleasantly surprised. But I wont trust it to save my bacon from Mr Bear or Mrs Cougar.

Slugs will do the trick though as I believe they should still be doing around 1300 fps within the 15m range.

Just have to find someone brave enough to try to chrony slugs from their SMD at 15m to be sure.

Maybe we should take up a small collection and elect someone to go shogun their chrony, er, um, I mean chrony their shotgun. hehe.
 
ApoC_101 said:
holy crap ponts, relax. theres nothing wrong with people researching this for themselves, there is no solid rule that its legal yet (but at the same time, no solid rule its not, and its been authorized to some extent by the RCMP which makes it legal as far as we know).
Click to expand...

What are you on CRACK?

YES there is one SOLID ruling from the HEAD of the FRT divison of the RCMP FIREMARMS CENTER. Have you not been listening? This gun is being LEGALLY manufactured as we speak and will be distributed widely across Canada. The DLASK SMD 8.5" 870 is NON-RESTRICTED without question. Give your head a shake. This is unbelievable what the hell is wrong with some CGN'ers?
 
maurice said:
My 14" Hp9 with 1rd mag extension is plenty short. Anything beyond 25 yards and it really opens up; I can only imagine how an 8.5 will open up.
Click to expand...

Shot dispersal (patterns) is a function of choke, not barrel length. If you shot the same ammo in a 22" shotgun with the same choke, you would have the same pattern- but maybe 8" further out.:p
 
BabySeal said:
Slugs will do the trick though as I believe they should still be doing around 1300 fps within the 15m range.
Just have to find someone brave enough to try to chrony slugs from their SMD at 15m to be sure.
Maybe we should take up a small collection and elect someone to go shogun their chrony, er, um, I mean chrony their shotgun. hehe.
Click to expand...

I'll chrono it at 15m for you this weekend :) Any slug in particular?

I am comfortable enough with my group size (2 3/4" 3 rounds at 25m) and POI is good as long as I get right down on the front blade.

BUT I will video it just in case I blow up the chrony! ;)
 
YES there is one SOLID ruling from the HEAD of the FRT divison of the RCMP FIREMARMS CENTER
Click to expand...

not true.... we don;t know who wrote the above letter or where exactly it is from. all the information that you need to identify the ONE person who made the ruling is ###'ed out.
 
Randall_Flagg said:
not true.... we don;t know who wrote the above letter or where exactly it is from. all the information that you need to identify the ONE person who made the ruling is ###'ed out.
Click to expand...

Presumably Dlask has the name of the ###X guy, and is confident it is not just some RCMP janitor that made the decision.:p
 
Randall_Flagg said:
not true.... we don;t know who wrote the above letter or where exactly it is from. all the information that you need to identify the ONE person who made the ruling is ###'ed out.
Click to expand...

Your registration slip will say non-restricted and you have the FRT number . Any cop or game warden can access the database 24/7 . The guy didn't want to be publically identified because of gunnutz who can't catch on to the FRT number or the non-restricted status on thier registration and would be e-mailing and phoning him constantly to see if it's true and asking him if they can do it to thier Ithica .
 
ponts said:
What are you on CRACK?

YES there is one SOLID ruling from the HEAD of the FRT divison of the RCMP FIREMARMS CENTER. Have you not been listening? This gun is being LEGALLY manufactured as we speak and will be distributed widely across Canada. The DLASK SMD 8.5" 870 is NON-RESTRICTED without question. Give your head a shake. This is unbelievable what the hell is wrong with some CGN'ers?
Click to expand...


tell that to everyone that bought a non restricted walther G22.
 
atr said:
Your registration slip will say non-restricted and you have the FRT number . Any cop or game warden can access the database 24/7 . .
Click to expand...

the reg card will say what? rem 870 with barrel < 470mm? that doesn't prove anything. that is the same card as a full stocked 18" barrel one.

how much info is actually held in the FRT? if it just says "rem 870 with 8.5" barrel" that still doesn't help. if it says "rem 870 with 8.5" barrel, pistol grip only, no stock, OAL 17." then I'd fell better.

I'd be curious to see the entire definition in the FRT, that would be available to law enforcement.
 
atr said:
Your registration slip will say non-restricted and you have the FRT number . Any cop or game warden can access the database 24/7 . The guy didn't want to be publically identified because of gunnutz who can't catch on to the FRT number or the non-restricted status on thier registration and would be e-mailing and phoning him constantly to see if it's true and asking him if they can do it to thier Ithica .
Click to expand...

if I put my own 8.5" barrel on a full length shotgun with a full stock so the gun was over 26" then I would be issued a registration certificate with an frt # the same as the one posted above.

when have you seen an FRT# issed for a pistol grip ?? as far as I know they are issued for barrel length, in this case I believe they where issued because of the dlask barrel being 8.5" and no frt# existed for that barrel length.

for example the 14" FRT# for the express model shotguns posted in a sticky in this forum.

New Info on 870 12.5"/14" Barrel Re-registering

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Well I had my 870 Wingmaster re-verified and re-registered with a 14" barrel today.

My verifier said the conversation came up about only the 870 Police has a factory option of the 14" barrel. After a talk with some kahuna at the CFC it was agreed that while the Wingmaster does not come with the 14" barrel as a factory option, a factory 14" Remy barrel will indeed fit the Wingmaster and still meets all criteria of a non-restricted firearm.

It was decided to come up with a new FRT number to designate the 870 Wingmaster with a 14" Remington barrel.

As of today FRT# 38294-56 designates the wingmaster with a 14" Remy barrel.

Hope this helps any of you doing the same.
Click to expand...

For example the above conversation, a new frt # was issued because the wingmaster and the express models where never issued with 14" barrels, only the police models.

now in the case of the 8.5" barrel when has remington offered a factory barrel in that length ?? I know wilson combat has made guns that small... as have some other companies making custom guns.

the current short barrel according to remingtonle.com is the 10" barrel offered in thier mgs package.

I would like to see the descripiton that goes along with the new FRT# and see if it says anything about a pistol grip (not a pistol grip stock)
 
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