Legalities: SBR Conversion kits for Pistols

If the c96 had a purpose built receiver, that was designed only for use with a fixed stock, and to which a regular pistol grip could not be affixed.... It would indeed be a rifle, and its restricted status would be governed by barrel length only. (A-la "browning buckmark" rifle)

I am not well read on broom handles but there could indeed be such a variant that exists.
 
tiriaq said:
An original Mauser carbine is not a pistol with a buttstock tacked on. It is a purpose built carbine - just like the Browning .22 carbine. Don't know if any were made with barrels long enough to qualify for non-restricted status though.
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I just wanted to relay info as it was passed to me...the rossi is an original carbine as well not a modified one ...but alas the rcmp have classed it restricted regardless and have done so with any variation of the broomhandle as well( it doesn't need logic it's the rcmp) or so I was informed.
Thanks :)
Come to think of it ..they rarely know what they are even talking about either though :p
Man.... things get confusing quick time lol
 
And for what it is worth, there are some short barrelled XCR's that are classified as restricted rifles (the ones imported with folders) as long as they were imported as restricted or non-restricted rifles (non-restricted's which were rebarrelled after importation)
 
silen said:
I just wanted to relay info as it was passed to me...the rossi is an original carbine as well not a modified one ...but alas the rcmp have classed it restricted regardless and have any variation of the broomhandle as well or so I was informed.
Thanks :)
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For clarity if I remember the original ruling as posted in the Wanstalls thread correct, the Rossi Circut Judge was ruled as restricted as it could be operated with one hand like a pistol.

Also the C-96 Broomhandle isn't always restricted, some can be antique ;).

I don't think that the carbine ruling has been challenged to classify one as non-restricted as the barrel is part of the entire upper assembly and would require a new purpose built upper or a new barrel installed (after cutting off the original and threading the new machined one on). Needless to say it would be an expensive proposition to have a one off FRT issued that may, or may not, be favorable.
 
silen said:
I just wanted to relay info as it was passed to me...the rossi is an original carbine as well not a modified one ...but alas the rcmp have classed it restricted regardless and have done so with any variation of the broomhandle as well( it doesn't need logic it's the rcmp) or so I was informed.
Thanks :)
Come to think of it ..they rarely know what they are even talking about either though :p
Man.... things get confusing quick time lol
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The rossi has the same receiver underneath the furniture as its restricted handgun brother, and was thus classified as a restricted handgun receiver, even though it is in carbine configuration. No surprise there
 
Eric_911 said:
And for what it is worth, there are some short barrelled XCR's that are classified as restricted rifles (the ones imported with folders) as long as they were imported as restricted or non-restricted rifles (non-restricted's which were rebarrelled after importation)
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At the moment all XCR Mico and Mini are classified as pistols and imported as such.
 
loki_81 said:
At the moment all XCR Mico and Mini are classified as pistols and imported as such.
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Even those imported with folders installed? (Maybe the micro's and mini's had the folders installed post-importation to make things easier with US SBR export regs?)

Interesting.....
 
Eric_911 said:
The rossi has the same receiver underneath the furniture as its restricted handgun brother, and was thus classified as a restricted handgun receiver, even though it is in carbine configuration. No surprise there
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Except for an 18.5 inch barrel...would be kinda neat to watch a cowboy action shooter attempt to draw THAT from a holster :D lol
 
silen said:
Except for an 18.5 inch barrel...would be kinda neat to watch a cowboy action shooter attempt to draw THAT from a holster :D lol
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I agree.... It is silly, but you could have a handgun receiver with 3 meter long barrel affixed, and it wouldn't do a lick of difference for classification
 
loki_81 said:
For clarity if I remember the original ruling as posted in the Wanstalls thread correct, the Rossi Circut Judge was ruled as restricted as it could be operated with one hand like a pistol.

Also the C-96 Broomhandle isn't always restricted, some can be antique ;).

I don't think that the carbine ruling has been challenged to classify one as non-restricted as the barrel is part of the entire upper assembly and would require a new purpose built upper or a new barrel installed (after cutting off the original and threading the new machined one on). Needless to say it would be an expensive proposition to have a one off FRT issued that may, or may not, be favorable.
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This is why I love this forum...learning new things every day:)
& lmao I can just picture some dummy from the rcmp struggling then firing an 18.5" barreled, long stock with one hand...barely then saying "yup see guys I did it ...I did it..told ya it was a pistol" :p
I can fire some rifles handed too ;) must be all pistols..bunch a wieners eh!!
 
Eric_911 said:
Even those imported with folders installed?
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Yes, purposely classified as a pistol by the importer to err on the side of caution (understandably) so as to not get the entire line ruled as restricted. Here's the quote from Mr Wolverine.

Mr Wolverine said:
In the case of the XCR rifles we were advised that if barrels under 18.5 inches were sold then the easiest solution would be to classify all XCR as restricted regardless of barrel lengths. Scare tactics maybe, but after what we have experienced this year I believe as an importer and distributor that there are times when we should show due diligence and act with a degree of caution.
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Got a green from our board. Not a problem with this conversion since no mod is done with the original pistol. Cited as an example: Luger Artillery model with optional stock, still classified as restricted pistol.
 
i wonder what club has “these executives” with no knowledge but an opinion.........you can even PM me so no wrong doing goes on.....lol
 
ambishooter said:
Got a green from our board. Not a problem with this conversion since no mod is done with the original pistol. Cited as an example: Luger Artillery model with optional stock, still classified as restricted pistol.
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They're still making up their own interpretation of the law. If this is a club rule then I understand, but it's not the law.

Case in point, take a pistol frame and add a "carbine" upper as so;

GlockFullDress.jpg


It's still a pistol. You've done a modification (in this case not permanent, but the permanency doesn't matter) and it's still a pistol. The only thing that needs to change in this case is the barrel length on the registration cert, which will still be classified as a pistol.
 
loki_81 said:
Yes, purposely classified as a pistol by the importer to err on the side of caution (understandably) so as to not get the entire line ruled as restricted. Here's the quote from Mr Wolverine.
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Thanks for the Wolverine quote.... It makes sense from their perspective.... Still wrong, but I guess they had to make a compromise not to upset big brother ;-)
 
Eric_911 said:
The rossi has the same receiver underneath the furniture as its restricted handgun brother, and was thus classified as a restricted handgun receiver, even though it is in carbine configuration. No surprise there
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I believe Rossi revolver carbine could be non restricted if it had a 5 round cylinder, instead of 6. I think that is the problem...

Coming from that, if one of the chambers of the cylinder was permanently blocked, wonder if it could be reclassified as a nonrestricted rifle.
 
aakoksal said:
I believe Rossi revolver carbine could be non restricted if it had a 5 round cylinder, instead of 6. I think that is the problem...

Coming from that, if one of the chambers of the cylinder was permanently blocked, wonder if it could be reclassified as a nonrestricted rifle.
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No. The Rossi is restricted because the shoulder stock is a drop in replacement for their standard pistol grips. It was deemed to be built off a pistol frame and is therefore restricted. A revolver is also a manual action firearm, and thus has an unlimited magazine capacity, though the solid, cylindrical nature of it's "magazine" makes high capacity problematic.
 
aakoksal said:
I believe Rossi revolver carbine could be non restricted if it had a 5 round cylinder, instead of 6. I think that is the problem...

Coming from that, if one of the chambers of the cylinder was permanently blocked, wonder if it could be reclassified as a nonrestricted rifle.
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100% false. A revolver is a manual repeater, regardless of whether it is a single or double action. The action does not cycle itself, the user cycles it, by either cocking it, or by exerting force on the trigger to cycle the action.

The "5 round limit" you refer to is for semiauto centerfire rifles, and would not apply to the Rossi carbine for multiple reasons... 1) it is not a semi auto action, 2) it is not considered by the RCMP's interpretation to be a long gun, but rather a pistol. (even if it were considered a long gun, see point #1)
 
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