Legalities vs. Ethics

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Slugo

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Topic 1

Over on another thread, I jumped on a fellow for road hunting. At the time I assumed he was hunting from a public road. As it turns out he was hunting from a bush road, making it perfectly legal.

The thread generated many responses, with some posters providing information that hunting from a motorized vehicle from public roads is legal in some parts of Canada. In my opinion, making it legal doesn't make it ethical. I believe organizations like Boone & Crockett, Pope & Young, Safari Club, etc. agree with my position and would label such hunting unethical.

I'm curious as to the other members thoughts and opinions on the subject?


Topic 2

In that thread a moderator said the following:

A story about a hunt isn't an open invitation to critisize the methods of the hunter, unless something GROSSLY UNETHICAL has occured (not just that you prefer a different method of hunting). If it's legal, that's pretty much about it. If you don't like one form or another, start a new thread and discus it.

I have no trouble following the mods rules on this, but I do have to question whether something can be GROSSLY UNETHICAL and still be legal?

I believe road hunting to be just that.

Any thoughts or opinions?



I should mention that I am talking about sport hunting in a traditional sense. I have some friends in the north that hunt strictly for food and are opportunity hunters. If they see an animal that is easy to harvest and they need the meat, they do so. They do so in the easiest way, using any means available. I have no problem with this.
 
What ever works for you. :D I do know that driving roads , like baiting is a lottery if your after a mature wall hanger.
Get in the woods for a brute. Getting in a warm cab of a vehicle for a ride to warm up can break up a long day afield , and their is nothing at all wrong with that. Bottom line get off the couch and have a fun day in the wilds. :cool:
 
Why do we concern ourselves with policing through personal values? No crime, no foul, I have a hunting buddy who has a father that is nearly 85 and still hunting, but is restricted to road hunting and short hikes, I won't lie, I road hunt into an area I plan to hunt and road hunt out as well.
 
Some people fisf at fish farms, is that unethical? If its legal, let them have their fun. Its not my interpetation hof hunting. Much like when I sit in my friends driveway and shoot geese as they come in low to land in the gravel pit across the road. Ethical???? who knows. but it sure is funn and fills the freezer.
 
how does a handicapped person or someone with a physical disability hunt when they can't go trapsing through the bush and over/under trees brush etc?
due to an accident at work i am disabled partialy and i cant be spending hours walking through heavy brush so i limit my hunts to within a few *50-100 yrds* off the rd is that unethical? maybe depends on your own personal views, is it illegal? no given that i qualify for a permit to sit in a vehicle and hunt from it, i still choose to get out and walk a bit
 
open-sights said:
Why do we concern ourselves with policing through personal values? No crime, no foul, I have a hunting buddy who has a father that is nearly 85 and still hunting, but is restricted to road hunting and short hikes, I won't lie, I road hunt into an area I plan to hunt and road hunt out as well.
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X2.
 
The most ethical way to hunt IMO is (1)find aplace with enough of your quarry so that if you are successfull it will not do harm to the population as a whole, and (2) Kill it as quickly and effectively as possible.

Whether its a shot off of the edge of a bush road at a deer 50 yards away or from a mountain top miles from any road at a deer 300 yards away makes no "ethical" difference to me as long as you have an extremely high chance of making a quick clean kill.

Personally, I prefer to hunt on foot. But I certainly look for game from the truck travelling to and from and if I see the right animal while driving in a legal hunting area, I have no problem in getting out of the truck and harvesting it ;)
 
"Personally, I prefer to hunt on foot. But I certainly look for game from the truck travelling to and from and if I see the right animal while driving in a legal hunting area, I have no problem in getting out of the truck and harvesting it ."

I think most hunters in B.C. would fit into Salty's category.

I worked with a guy this summer though who says he never gets out of his truck and just wants to drive around drinking beer until he sees a deer. I've heard about guys like him, but have met very few. He knew about a lot of good areas too as he had advice from a lot of oldtimers.

Would I ever join him on a "hunt"?

No.
 
Ethics and morals are a personal thing and should stay that way, as long as they are within the confines of the law.
 
Slugo said:
I do have to question whether something can be GROSSLY UNETHICAL and still be legal?

I believe road hunting to be just that.

Any thoughts or opinions?
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Sure. If I had a gunsmith make a rifle in .25ACP I could use it to hunt moose in Ontario. Perfectly legal because it's a centerfire rifle but I'd think just about every one here would consider that unethical.

But then we get into the gray areas.

It's legal to shoot a roosting grouse or one on the ground. It's not something I do because I think shooting game birds that aren't on the wing to be unethical.

Hunting bears with dogs isn't something I'm comfortable with. It's legal but not something I do.

Road hunting? I don't care one way or the other.

Once we go beyond the laws, ethics are mine to choose or not. I don't care however to have someone else's ethics forced upon me and won't try and impose mine on others. So if it's legal I try not to jump on people and just don't do what they do.

I also don't believe that just because something is legal it's automatically ethical. Government can make laws but they can't determine my own ethical standards.
 
Interesting replies so far.


open-sights said:
Why do we concern ourselves with policing through personal values? No crime, no foul, I have a hunting buddy who has a father that is nearly 85 and still hunting, but is restricted to road hunting and short hikes, I won't lie, I road hunt into an area I plan to hunt and road hunt out as well.
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Open Sights, I'm not sure I understand your first scentance, can you elaborate for me?
 
SOME western hunters don't like the fact that we can hunt bear over bait in Ontario, or plant food plots for deer or use dogs on deer. Completely legal but they question the ethics. Their right to opine. Will I respond - No.

Because ethics are so subjective, as long as an activity falls within the boundaries of the law, the ensuing debate really can be a moot point.
 
The more I consider this entire subject, the more questions I come up with. I believe ethics are a very personal thing and what is truly important is that we satisfy ourselves with our actions. The more I consider it, the less I believe the law plays any part in how I define my ethics. Where I can find no (there may be some) situations where I would break an Ontario game law while hunting or fishing, I can think of many situations where I would not take an animal that is legal to take because I find it unetheical.

I think I consider many things and weigh each one differently when I define my personal ethics.
-Will I enjoy the experience if done this way.
-Is the kill a "Fair Chase" situation
-What my friends and peers do.
-How will my actions be perceived by others.


crazy_davey said:
Handicapped people dont have a choice, I think that is a different subject is it not :confused:
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I'm not sure it is. I agree they have less options than I, although they still have a responsibility to act legaly. I believe they should set a reasonable standard of fair chase for themselves. This may or may not involve use of motor vehicles, etc.
 
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Fall Guy said:
Because ethics are so subjective, as long as an activity falls within the boundaries of the law, the ensuing debate really can be a moot point.
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I'm not sure I agree the point is moot. Don't we form our own values on life experiences? By judging what others do, it helps us determine what we would do in their situation and creat a set of values for similar situations.

Yesterday I saw a fellow severely whip a horse. I'm confident it was not necessary and feel it was wrong. He obviously thought it was right. We have different values and mine are partially based on what I saw him do. There is no doubt the whipping was legal.
 
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Slugo said:
There is no doubt the whipping was legal.
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Depends on the severity of the whipping. Again interpetation. Animal cruelty is against the law. Having delt with horses before, I know that their hides a pretty tough. Although it may have seem a harsh whipping to someone who doesn't know about horses, it may not have been. If you have ever been bitten or kicked by a horse and then see how offten they do it to each other, you know what I mean.But I also know that "over the top" bad treatment can be reported. And should be.
 
Slugo said:
I think I consider many things and weigh each one differently when I define my personal ethics.
-Will I enjoy the experience if done this way.
-Is the kill a "Fair Chase" situation
-What my friends and peers do.
-How will my actions be perceived by others.


I'm not sure it is. I agree they have less options than I, although they still have a responsibility to act legaly. I believe they should set a reasonable standard of fair chase for themselves. This may or may not involve use of motor vehicles, etc.
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If you are worried about "fair chase", is it fair to take a deer at 300 yards with a rifle.... would it not be "fair chase" to take him at 25yards with a bow????

Some people hunt for a trophy rack and don't even care to consume the meat, is that ethical??

Some people use their vehicles to go and spot the deer and then move into the bush after them, in southern Sask you need to cover a lot of ground as compared to Ontario or say BC... wide open patchy bush areas are a little different. What works in one place does not always work in another part of the country.... As long as what you are doing is legal.... the ethical part has to be left to the individual person.

Everyone one has an opinion on what is ethical, does not make the other person wrong. Your beliefs are yours, keep them and follow them, but I don't know if its correct to criticize others for possibly not agreeing with yours.
 
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