Legion SHoots - Enfield - Which One?

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sobo4303

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Hey guys, your advice has never let me down. In Alberta, our Legions in NE Alberta have a shoot. I am a member and was invited/encouraged to shoot.

The criteria is that the rifles used have to be a .303 Enfield. That's about it. I understand they have different categories for the different classes of rifles (sporterized, etc). I have never owned one of these babies. From your knowledge, not withstanding the sporter/non-sporter issues, which of the rifles were more accurate? The WWI or WWII. My grandfather used to rave about the rifle he used. I just want to shoot and not embarrass myself too badly by shooting with a rifle which was inherently bad accuracy wise.

Any advice? Also, where would be a good start to look for these things.
 
Recoil was {and to some extent still} an issue for me when I first started shooting these rifles. This is important to take into account for accuracy. No1 Mk3 {WW1} for me is better balanced weight wise and therefore less perceived recoil. No4 Mk1, 1* or 2 {WW2} have more recoil IMO= less accuracy. No5 {jungle carbine as some call them} WW2 as well {near the end} Bark and punch like he11. The later two are because of balance/weight ratio not load related at all as they all shoot .303
These things are subjective opinions on my part and can be greatly managed with self made rounds that aren't as hot as milspec or factory.
 
Thing to do might be to zip on over the milsurps dot com and take out a (free) membership, then raid their wonderful Military Knowledge Library for your own download of SHOOT TO LIVE. This is the standard WW2 and post-War coure of instruction on how to shoot accurately with the Lee-Enfield Number 4 Rifle which is, of course, a .303. MOST of the book is equally applicable to the older Number 1 Rifle (the SMLE) of WW1 fame.

As to accuracy, I have both rifles and have been shooting them for many years. With a decent specimen of either rifle, you can expect 2 MOA or thereabouts. That is hitting a postcard consistently at 300 yards, a sheet of writing-paper at 400 yards. Consistently. Some rifles will do much better. In any case, the rifle action should be tight in the woodwork and the barrel should be FREE to vibrate in its channel, with a short (couple of inches or a bit less) area near the muzzle where the barrel bears downward against the fore-end wood with a force of roughly 4 pounds.

If the trigger doesn't give you the proper two pressures, you can stone the trigger "lumps" to give you this as well as a proper, crisp letoff. If there is a worn and creepy area on your cocking-piece, this can be stoned smooth.

With a decent bore, your rifle now will shoot.

The rest is up to you.

Good luck!

Hope this helps.
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I agree with smellie. After getting a copy of shoot to live, my enfield shoot improved dramatically. It all pretty much comes down to the one that you prefer.
 
As George mentioned, one of the best books I've ever read (and trained with) on shooting the Enfield rifle is available in electronic format, professionally scanned (thanks to Ian Robertson), in the Knowledge Library section Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php...esearch-for-milsurp-collectors-and-re-loaders

"Shoot-to-Live" - 1945 (click here)

Presenting the Johnson Method of Musketry Coaching As Adopted By the Canadian Army, Ottawa, Chief of the General Staff.

This is an excellent Canadian Government issued training manual. If you are specifically a collector and shooter of Lee Enfield rifles, you'll find this to be an outstanding reference work and it contains a wealth of information on how to properly shoot the No.4 Mk1 Enfield, although much of the content is applicable to any bolt action rifle. I remember being issued this manual as part of our regimental rifle team, when I was a little younger back in the early 60's. ;)

Hope this helps... :)

Regards,
Doug
 
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You have not mentioned the range at which you will be shooting. Way back when, I used the Number 4 rifle for up to 600 yards, and the Number 1 rifle for ranges over 600 and up to 1000 yards.

It is unlikely that the local Legion shoot will be in the longer ranges, so a good Number 4 rifle is probably your best bet. Also, it has an improved sighting system, and you can find a rifle with the Mark I micrometer adjustable sight. ( Or if the rifle is good, then you can buy a replacement Mark I sight.)

You might pay particular attention to the advice BADGER and SMELLIE have given you. SMELLIE had the advantage of shooting together regularly with Bill (Bisley) Brown, a five time Member of Canada's Bisley Team, and Captain of the team Twice.

"Shoot to Live" by Johnson is probably the best book available for using the Number 4 rifle. My copy was signed by the Author and presented to me at a Shoot.

THE BOOK for the Number 1 Mark III rifle is "The Elements of Rifle Shooting," first published in England in 1932 by Lt.-Col. J.A. Barlow, one of Englands best shooting Competetors. It is long out of print, but it is one that I have had and used since the mid-1950s.

While these two above books were my "Bibles" for shooting the Lee Enfields on the ranges, my biggest asset was the knowledge gained from a retired Regimental Sergeant-Major who had been an Instructor at the School of Musketry in Hythe, England.

Talk to the better shots and the ones who have won the match in the previous years. Chances are, they will help you and give you some good advice.
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Excellnt advice from BUFFDOG, especially that last para.

Rifle shooting is the single most GENTLEMANLY sport I have encountered.

Of course, we prove that every day, right here on CGN and again over at milsurps dot com.
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buffdog said:
"Shoot to Live" by Johnson is probably the best book available for using the Number 4 rifle. My copy was signed by the Author and presented to me at a Shoot.

THE BOOK for the Number 1 Mark III rifle is "The Elememts of Rifle Shooting," first published in England in 1932 by Lt.-Col. J.A. Barlow, one of Englands best shooting Competetors. It is long out of print, but it is one that I have had and used since the mid-1950s.



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Click to expand...

The Essentials and Shoot to Live definitely teach a few points differently. I found Shoot to Live to be easier to understand and apply, I did lots of dry fire practice at home with my wife helping coach me in the last two days and I know it helped lots, I had no clue and no prior instruction on shooting the No4. I noticed a difference immediately, I can do a dry fire with a SKS case balanced on the front band almost indefinitely. I definitely would like to have someone who knows how to check cheek pressure and some of the body positions help me out for a few hours 1 on 1, that would be a huge help too. The part about focusing on the front sight and using your bones as supports and not your muscles made immediate sense too. I really liked reading that manual a lot! Thanks for posting it up here!
 
If you have one use a Ross Rifle.
That'll stirr up the discussion pot,and you can prove to them it was all a rumour after all these year's.
 
Oh yes, but the Ross jams and screws up ALL the time. Absolutely unreliable under ANY circumstances, not even to mention all those bolts blowing back in people's faces.

Just EVERYBODY knows that!

Funny, though, that nobody told that to any of MY Rosses.

They all still work just fine: 45 years without a jam or a blowback.

But then I DID take time to read the Manual.
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