okcorral1881
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East of Toronto
This is what I call an informative response...well put cr5!
Very nice rifle Olyar15...........
Very nice rifle Olyar15...........
Les bear super match or dd mk12
- Thread starter rl4930
- Start date
Thanks for the great replies, as far as top if the line or middle of the road as far as rifles go, I was unaware of that considering they're within $500 if each other. And I haven't actually handled the elite tactical scopes. I have just heard good things about them. I think I'm definitely going to go for the Les Baer, this rifle will be primarily a bench rest type rig.
One more question, is the throat short enough in yours that you can still jam vlds on the lands and still be able to feed reliably out if the magazine? After reading about the 264 being the same as the 6.5 Grendel, I think I'll likely end up giving that consideration as well. I'm hoping the cheer is tight, I would hate to buy one of these and find out it's a single shot.
If that is the case, I would away towards the Dd mk12 and just be able to shoot anything I want and when I want to shoot sub MoA, put some fgmm down the tube.
If that is the case, I would away towards the Dd mk12 and just be able to shoot anything I want and when I want to shoot sub MoA, put some fgmm down the tube.
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The one difference between both manufacturers is that one makes mid-level AR (DD) whereas Les Baer does semi-custom AR only, so that why that comparison is from. Same for JP Enterprises or LaRue, only top tier (yup had to use that word!) comes out of their shop.
So you are considering going 6.5G? I'd like to try one of those
If you go with 223/5.56 I would try to order a rifle with a Wylde chamber unless you know you will only shoot either 223 or 5.56.
All of my AR's are limited by magazine length not the chamber so you can't go much over 77 grain projectiles. You don't need to go heavier than that anyway though unless you are shooting 1000m regularly. Definitely go with the 7 twist barrel if you are planning to shoot heavy projectiles at long range regularly. My favorite is an 8 twist but I don't shoot my 223's past 300-500 yards very often. I have other rifles for that
For the money you are talking about spending you could always build a rifle or buy a cheaper rifle then throw a custom stainless barrel into it. A nice used Noveske or LMT etc off the EE then a nice stainless 16-18 inch barrel and a 15 inch handguard would set you up nicely. With the AR the barrel is the most important part of the package that determines it's accuracy. The rest is mostly just bling.
Going the build route would also allow you to go straight to a Geissele or other high end trigger of your choice.
I would also look at the JP rifles if you are willing to spend the money. They are beautiful and pretty much built specifically for competition shooting.
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I was reading DD spec on the mk12 and notice it misses alot of crutial info for some reason:s info I came across on the net. Here's something's they don't tell you.
- the 18" barrel is cold hammer forge and it's chamber is forged at the same time has the barrel instead of cut afterwards.
-comes with a bcm gun fighter charging handle
- and comes with a Geissele ssa 2 stage trigger
Here at 11:10 it talks more in definition about the barrel.
The barrel has a hardness of rc65 with the same hardness on the barrel, chamber and bore witch promote accuracy. The barrel is designed to shoot 69 gr. and up and has a special proprietary chamber that is not 223, 556 or 223 Wilde.
- the 18" barrel is cold hammer forge and it's chamber is forged at the same time has the barrel instead of cut afterwards.
-comes with a bcm gun fighter charging handle
- and comes with a Geissele ssa 2 stage trigger
Here at 11:10 it talks more in definition about the barrel.
The barrel has a hardness of rc65 with the same hardness on the barrel, chamber and bore witch promote accuracy. The barrel is designed to shoot 69 gr. and up and has a special proprietary chamber that is not 223, 556 or 223 Wilde.
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I'm just considering the Grendel, I'm more than likely going to stick to 233/5.56 and 8 twist. I though the super match came with a Geissele trigger already? As well as a bipod and soft case? I'm not 100 percent sure though. I also like the mk12. I will look into a build, but every time I start pricing out a build, it's always big $$. I haven't though of just re-barreling a decent upper. Maybe a I can get the mk12 complete and build another upper. ... Too many options. It would suck to spend $3000 on a build to find out it's a turd. When you can get the super match for $2500 and have a guaranted 1/2 MoA rifle. It's a 5 to 7 month wait for the Les Baer too.
I know all about too many options. I have 6 AR's right now. Wanna buy an AR-10?
Pretty hard to get a turd if you do a build and pick a quality barrel. My last couple builds ended up under $1500 using a quality barrel. I went with used parts from the EE and my last oneI used an NEA upper and lower with a DD LPK and Buffer tube then a custom built 300BLK barrel with a Fail Zero Nickel Boron BCG and Troy Alpha rail. It turned out really well. Shoots great
If you plan to shoot long distance regularly you might want to shift your direction slightly and consider a 7 twist. You can't over-stabilize a projectile but you can under-stabilize it so there really isn't any downside to going tighter unless you plan to shoot really light thin jacketed varmint bullets. Those longer heavier pills need to be spun up pretty good to keep then stabilized at distance.
Love these threads! I've been waiting to buy my first AR; just can't frikkin decide! Money is no object, Tavor and xcr are out, I just don't know which AR to buy??? I want a rifle that I can put 10000rounds through, kick the $hit out of it, and it still loves me. I want a "goin ta war" stick! Thoughts?
PWS piston driven. My 12 inch can shoot sub moa with the Black Hills 77gr match Mk262 Mod 1 rounds. It's coming up on 5000 rounds without a single failure that wasn't caused by the operator. Barely looks like it's been used after a good clean. No broken parts and nothing replaced on it. Just buy it and shoot it
Haha, I'm not in need of an ar-10... Yet. How many of those builds tho, are genuine 1/2 MoA rifles? There's a lot of variables in a build! And everything that comes with and goes into a Les Baer seems to be a deal to me. What kind of all day accuracy can be expected from the Mk12? I have heard hearsay of sub MoA, but no written word.
Btw, I seem to attract bad luck, so I'm leary if getting a turd.
Btw, I seem to attract bad luck, so I'm leary if getting a turd.
I know all about too many options. I have 6 AR's right now. Wanna buy an AR-10?
Pretty hard to get a turd if you do a build and pick a quality barrel. My last couple builds ended up under $1500 using a quality barrel. I went with used parts from the EE and my last oneI used an NEA upper and lower with a DD LPK and Buffer tube then a custom built 300BLK barrel with a Fail Zero Nickel Boron BCG and Troy Alpha rail. It turned out really well. Shoots great
If you plan to shoot long distance regularly you might want to shift your direction slightly and consider a 7 twist. You can't over-stabilize a projectile but you can under-stabilize it so there really isn't any downside to going tighter unless you plan to shoot really light thin jacketed varmint bullets. Those longer heavier pills need to be spun up pretty good to keep then stabilized at distance.
An AR-10 is better suited to long range than a 223, no worries though, it sounds like one of my buddy's is going to buy it from me.
Keep in mind that the 1/2moa guarantee is with a specific ammo, not everything you try will even be sub moa, some will be 2moa and some may even be worse. You will still need to buy very expensive factory match loads and probably try a couple different brands and weights and/or handload and do some extensive load development to get close to 1/2 moa. There are a lot of factors that go into shooting groups that tight consistently.
I don't know how much shooting you do but just because you have a rifle capable of 1/2moa under perfect conditions doesn't mean you will be able to shoot those groups.
My 300 Blackout build using an NEA upper and lower can shoot sub moa with 155gr A-max handloads and I'm still doing development. My 223 build a few months ago with an ATRS heavy stainless barrel also shot sub moa but I sold that one to raise funds for a new toy. The biggest thing in a build is the barrel, get a good barrel and have the bolt fitted to it and the rest is mostly just for looks. Almost all uppers are the same when it comes to internal dimensions and the lower doesn't really factor into things as long as it's not so loose that the upper is rattling away on it. A good trigger helps but isn't required when you are shooting off the bench if you take your time and use good form.
As for all day accuracy that all depends on the ammo you are using and your abilities, most of these rifles once you get into the mid-upper level can out-shoot the guy behind the trigger.
I shoot a bit, and realize I'm not going to get 1/2 MoA from every ammo. I'm new to ar's but I've been shooting for about 20 years tho. Just new to restricted rifles. I don't mind having to buy federal gmm or black hills. But I'm also a reloader, so I'll likely load my own. The reason I like 223 over 308? I already have bolt guns capable. I like shooting for fun mostly, it's a passion and I'm not competing against anybody but myself. I would never say or admit I'm a pro by any means, but I think I have a decent grasp of what I'm looking for, but it is a grasp, as I know basic bolt guns and have never really paid attention to ar-15's untill recently. And in hindsight, I likely shouldn't have! They're like crack
Crack is like kool-aid compared to AR's
Hence why I now have 6 of them and have probably owned close to 15 in the last couple years.
For what you are describing you will be very happy with the Les Baer, you can probably even build yourself another upper a little down the road for more of a blasting and plinking set-up for just nailing gongs and running through cheap bulk ammo standing rather than just bench shooting to make tiny groups. It's really fun shooting them enough to get them hot and not worrying about hurting them.
I've really been bitten by the short barrel bug lately and other than my AR-10 my AR's are all 12 inches or shorter.
Crack is like kool-aid compared to AR's
Hence why I now have 6 of them and have probably owned close to 15 in the last couple years.
For what you are describing you will be very happy with the Les Baer, you can probably even build yourself another upper a little down the road for more of a blasting and plinking set-up for just nailing gongs and running through cheap bulk ammo standing rather than just bench shooting to make tiny groups. It's really fun shooting them enough to get them hot and not worrying about hurting them.
I've really been bitten by the short barrel bug lately and other than my AR-10 my AR's are all 12 inches or shorter.
I like the idea of taking one gun to the range to punch off 10 groups of load development and then slapping on an upper and just plinking targets with my wife and son.
This tread is interresting, thinking of a Les Baer, was looking at the ordering procedure today... The AR-10T Armalite could be a .5 rifle one out of two times, my main goal in shooting is to get sub MOA, after that, it is bonus points... JP.
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I think in the new year I'll be putting a deposit on the super match in 223 with a 20 inch 1 in 8 twist. It seems like i will have about 5 months or so to pay the other half of it. And I think I'll likely mount a sightron 8-32 for the time being. I'm hoping to shoot as good or better than the bolt guys.
Wow, 8-32 is a lot of scope for a 223 AR. If you want to be able to utilize the long range capabilities of that scope you may want to go with a 1:7 twist so you can shoot the 77gr pills way out there and ensure they still have enough spin to remain stable. The only thing a 7 twist will limit is your ability to shoot ultra light thin jacketed varmint bullets but that won't matter since you're stuck at the range with an AR anyway.
