"Less lethal" 12G ammunition.

Doubletap said:
I did a quick site search - but didn't come up with much.

Outside of arguments in regard to the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of "less lethal" 12G ammunition (plastic/rubber shot or slugs - beanbags and the like) in regard to home defense - can anyone tell me if this type of ammo is available legally in Canada?

Thanks in advance!
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Dude, if you ever shoot someone with a nonlethal round, you better have a lethal round on deck because that guy is gonna be pissed. I can only imagine a meth head in your house and how he might react to rubber. He'd be all over you like white on rice.

Better to just warn him. Tell him you'll shoot, and if he makes any threatening moves, use the real stuff. If you've elevated it to the point where your bearing down on him with a 12ga, then you're past the point of nonlethal solutions, cause the intruder is gonna kill YOU out of spite.

Just my opinion.
 
hoochie said:
I disagree.
Having the less lethal round would show premeditation to the act. Mens rea and actus reus are both there. If your intent was not to harm the intruder, then why did you shoot him?
The questions that will be raised after such an event are going to focus on where the firearm was prior to the intrusion, how the home owner got to it and loaded it prior to discharging it. And these less lethal rounds were set aside just for this purpose? isnt that interesting.....
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I said that it would look better than buckshot/birdshot/slugs because they are made not to kill, the law states that you have the right to defend yourself if your intent is not to KILL or create severe damage. Yes it might look odd you have self defense rounds but it's not illegal to own and store it like lethal ammunition. Would you rather do something legal that people are curious about or would you rather do something illegal that needs not questioning?
 
TacticallySharp said:
I said that it would look better than buckshot/birdshot/slugs because they are made not to kill, the law states that you have the right to defend yourself if your intent is not to KILL or create severe damage. Yes it might look odd you have self defense rounds but it's not illegal to own and store it like lethal ammunition. Would you rather do something legal that people are curious about or would you rather do something illegal that needs not questioning?
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If you don't mind, could you please quote the law (or relevant section of the Criminal Code of Canada) you are referring to as I am not familiar with it. Thanks!
 
I make "rubber" slugs by cutting the crimp off of target loads, pouring out th epellets and filling with hot glue.

Work pretty good on black bears that are causing trouble, but keep some live ammo at the end of the magazine.:)
 
factory ammo for home defense in the U.S. is common practice, anythings else shows premeditation and attorneys have a hayday.
 
yeah I think less lethal says I am prepared to defend myself but trying to do it responsibly. It may be good to have lethal rounds ready but I doubt you will need them. LEO's seem to find less lethal very effective. From what Ive seen, that stuff hurts! Rioters drop and give up when tagged with rubber, and Johnny Knoxville was in sad shape after taking a 12 ga. beanbag to the gut. Its not like your using paintballs or a slingshot. That stuff leaves nasty welts, bruising and goose eggs. I remember a show on TDC called guinea pig where the guy voluntarily tested less lethal LE weapons. He was in alot of pain and in no mood to resist!
 
I guess if the intruder was worried about getting shot, he should be home in bed, not threatening you and your family. It is sad that we have to worry about so many court actions when we never would instigate the situation in the first place. Read about invasions in the USA where people defend themselves and cops say nice shot, not "you are under arrest for murder"
 
Mr. Bean said:
I guess if the intruder was worried about getting shot, he should be home in bed, not threatening you and your family. It is sad that we have to worry about so many court actions when we never would instigate the situation in the first place. Read about invasions in the USA where people defend themselves and cops say nice shot, not "you are under arrest for murder"
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Some states are a whole different world, friend was broken into while home, had gun loaded in hand didn't shoot, cops were mad at him for not doing so. Now there will be many more break ins before the perp is caught creating more work for them.
 
dizzy said:
Some states are a whole different world, friend was broken into while home, had gun loaded in hand didn't shoot, cops were mad at him for not doing so. Now there will be many more break ins before the perp is caught creating more work for them.
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what state is this? i want to apply for my greencard there.
 
krausb said:
If you don't mind, could you please quote the law (or relevant section of the Criminal Code of Canada) you are referring to as I am not familiar with it. Thanks!
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34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.
 
Donster 125 said:
what state is this? i want to apply for my greencard there.
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I would say most states that allow CCW. And if you are moving to the US but aren't sure where I would make sure that state allows CCW. It would suck big time to end up in California for example, a state with stricter/stupider gun control than we have.
 
any situation in Canada where you would remotely be justified to point a firearm at another human being and pull the trigger would be a pretty dire one - ie: armed criminals breaking into your home with the intent to harm you or your family. in a situation like that, why on earth would you want to handicap yourself with nonlethal ammo that may have limited effectiveness at stopping an armed threat? nonlethal ammo is generally used to suppress protesters and rioters, not drop an armed threat as quickly as possible.

a0jc said:
You'll be charged the same in court as if you fired a lethal round. Just a consideration.
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or worse - since by having purchased and prepared both 'home defense' ammunition/shotgun beforehand, the crown could argue that you were chomping at the bit to shoot someone.
if you ever have to use a gun for home defense, youd be better off with a typical hunting gun with standard off the shelf hunting ammo (buckshot, slugs). 'i used whatever was at hand to protect my life and the life of my family'.

using a short-barreled 'tactical' shotgun bristling with picatinny rails, lights and lasers with ammunition designed for use against humans for 'home defense' is not going to look very good when the crown holds both your gun and ammunition up in front of a courtroom.
 
manbearpig said:
using a short-barreled 'tactical' shotgun bristling with picatinny rails, lights and lasers with ammunition designed for use against humans for 'home defense' is not going to look very good when the crown holds both your gun and ammunition up in front of a courtroom.
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so i guess im pretty screwed, what with my Mossberg 590A1 SPX with heatshield, surefire flashlight foregrip, sidesaddle and speedfeed stock then :(
 
in answer to the actual question

So, now that everyone is done saying why you shouldn't have it, you can get it at Lamperd Less Lethal in Sarnia. They are not rubber rounds, they are made for riot control and they are more like a sandbag with a kite tail to make it fly straight.
He also makes a full-auto 12g with a 50 round barrel mag for them. Very effective riot control.
As an aside he also makes an upper that fits on on an AR platform that does shoot rubber bullets.
j
 
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