Less powder = more fps ???

[bearhunter]

I don't think anyone is saying that "the best" accuracy is slower, but that there is an accuracy node below max that is just as accurate, doesn't burn out barrels, and doesn't risk overpressuring on a 35deg day.

BR is a whole different game, where barrels get replaced at X shots no matter what.

GGG

I have done a lot of reloading and shooting in my time and I have never been able to find that so called "sweet spot" at lower psi/velocities. I will admit to acceptable psi/velocity/accuracy sweet spots though.

Now, it depends on what you call a "sweet spot.' That point will vary point of impact in a variation of manners with every single change of any components, including Bruce's beloved Norma powder. Norma MRP was discontinued for a while because of to much variance from lot to lot.

You just can't rely on any powder to be manufactured in different facilities, sometimes in different nations to be interchangeable or consistent. One of the biggest Caveats I repeat to new or relatively inexperienced reloaders is to cut back on their powder charge with every component change. Different bullets/primers/powder/cases and of course rifles will all give different results. It's up to you to determine if they are acceptable for your purposes or not.

Last week I found Remingtion 9 1/2 M primers after a long drought. They were pricey so I only picked up a couple of thousand from WSS in Westbank. What surprised me was that sales person was surprised that I wanted both of the full sleeves he had on hand. He wasn't irate at all but did state that most people only purchased them in packs of 100 and couldn't understand why I would need a couple of thousand. OK, each to his own. I didn't want to have to explain about consistency.

OK back on topic. I loaded up some 6.5x55 x 140gr SST IL over the 9 1/2M primers x 49 grn IMR7828sc. I cut back that load by 2 grns from what I normally use with CCI 250 primers. Why, well Remingotn 9 1/2 M primers didn't get the nick name of being flame throwers for no reason. Velocities are within 30 fps average of the 51grn load but point of impact actually dropped at 100yd by about 1.5in and went left about the same. Obviously something different was going on. Just for my own ease of mind, I had also loaded up 5 cases with 51grns of the same powder with those Remington primers. Not a good load to use IMHO. It was to hot. Each of the five cases had shiney marks on the cartridge face, over the stamping and the primers had not only flattened but flowed a bit. Not in dangerous territory but very low life of brass territory. Point of impact on target rose 4+ inches and the group expanded to over 3+ inches. Different primer with same powder charge = care must be taken. Hand loaders can't afford to assume anything from lot to lot. That's why I also encourage people to purchase in bulk quantities.

 

[bearhunter]

How come?

One of the things people just don't seem to twig onto is that any give bore diameter will only burn so much powder at a given pressure to be safe/efficient/accurate. Under normal circumstances you need slower powders in smaller bores unless of course you are using small cases as well. Powder needs to burn at the proper temp and create the ideal pressure to maintain a consistent burn rate.

 

[K-C]

It is important that you disassemble any remaining ammo and start again! If you don't, you may loose a hand or an eye or worse!

Where did you get this load data from?

You said you are using H4350 under a 140gr ELD. Starting load of 42gr.

Hodgdon Data Center shows a MAX LOAD with H4350 + 140gr A-Max of 40.0gr (Compressed) yielding 2,660 fps (59,200 psi)

Hornady Handbook 9th Edition (pg 298) publishes MAX LOAD with H4350 of 40.9gr yielding 2,650 fps

Hornady factory ammo is loaded to 57,000 psi (http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ammunition_rs_pedigreed_200811/)

Horndy states: "...factory load data printed on the label so that the ammunition could be matched by handloader"

You REALLY need to thoroughly research your load data before you do any more shooting...

 

[Ron.B]

It is important that you disassemble any remaining ammo and start again! If you don't, you may loose a hand or an eye or worse!

Where did you get this load data from?

You said you are using H4350 under a 140gr ELD. Starting load of 42gr.

Hodgdon Data Center shows a MAX LOAD with H4350 + 140gr A-Max of 40.0gr (Compressed) yielding 2,660 fps (59,200 psi)

Hornady Handbook 9th Edition (pg 298) publishes MAX LOAD with H4350 of 40.9gr yielding 2,650 fps

Hornady factory ammo is loaded to 57,000 psi (http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ammunition_rs_pedigreed_200811/)

Horndy states: "...factory load data printed on the label so that the ammunition could be matched by handloader"

You REALLY need to thoroughly research your load data before you do any more shooting...

Yes I realize now I screwed up ,,, (call me a lucky newb). Seen posts about loads starting at 41.5 and going up to 43.3 grains.. The ultimate reloaded series uses all my exact setup and loads at 43 grains .... (Now assuming he was loading 120 grain bullets but the video never did say exactly what bullet it was ...., I figured my load would be between 42.8 and 43.1 grains ,,,,, Just bad info and a dummy reloading for the first time ..... Starting new at 38.5 grains and working up to 41.5 is my new plan .... Going to range to do testing tomorrow ..... Wish me luck ��
Ps I was watching for pressure signs after each shot and I am actually surprised that 42 grains looks exactly like 43.3 no signs of pressure ... I would have thought that that much over would have blown or flattened out the primer

 

[Gunneegoogoo]

Yes I realize now I screwed up ,,, (call me a lucky newb). Seen posts about loads starting at 41.5 and going up to 43.3 grains.. The ultimate reloaded series uses all my exact setup and loads at 43 grains .... (Now assuming he was loading 120 grain bullets but the video never did say exactly what bullet it was ...., I figured my load would be between 42.8 and 43.1 grains ,,,,, Just bad info and a dummy reloading for the first time ..... Starting new at 38.5 grains and working up to 41.5 is my new plan .... Going to range to do testing tomorrow ..... Wish me luck ��
Ps I was watching for pressure signs after each shot and I am actually surprised that 42 grains looks exactly like 43.3 no signs of pressure ... I would have thought that that much over would have blown or flattened out the primer

Welcome to reloading.

1 part science:2 parts witchcraft:3 parts opinion, shake well, enjoy.

GGG

 

[Ron.B]

New Game plan .... I can not get my 6.5 creedmoor 140 eldx match bullets to go 2700 fps with H4350 powder without going a full grain past the rated Max ... Looks like I chose the wrong powder ? Maybe ? ,,,, looking at switching to alliant reloader 17 to get a higher muzzle velocity,,,,,,, I bought a ton of federal Premium match primers GM210M ... hope their the right choice or do I replace them two ? Other choices for powder are Hybrid 100v or win 760 ...... what would you guys choose ... remember i'm shooting at extreme distance and steel gong targets mostly,,,

Thanks

 

[LordEvilPepper]

ok first things i would look at.

make sure your crony is far enough away its not picking up muzzle flash.... on a lot of guns thats 6 to 8 feet....
secondly check your scale... the electronic ones can have fairly large swings in them... and cheaper balance beams like the lee can loose zero between charges

after that your at the mercy of the gun.


for velocity checks you should be loading in .5 grain intervals... you will find a sweet spot were the velocity doesnt change between a 1ish grain area... you should load development in that bracket (eliminates a velocity swing veriable)

 

[Andy]

New Game plan .... I can not get my 6.5 creedmoor 140 eldx match bullets to go 2700 fps with H4350 powder without going a full grain past the rated Max ... Looks like I chose the wrong powder ? Maybe ? ,,,, looking at switching to alliant reloader 17 to get a higher muzzle velocity,,,,,,, I bought a ton of federal Premium match primers GM210M ... hope their the right choice or do I replace them two ? Other choices for powder are Hybrid 100v or win 760 ...... what would you guys choose ... remember i'm shooting at extreme distance and steel gong targets mostly,,,

Thanks

RL17 is faster than H4350 and even with the "magic" it claims, 1-2 grs less of it might gain maybe 50 fps more than the max load of H4350. What will produce top MV's (but not necessarily better accuracy) is more of a powder slower than H4350. Problem is that you're already using a full case of H4350, right? Something dense like a ball powder with a burn rate, between H4350 and RL19 such as Ramshot Hunter, or the discontinued Alliant 3000-LR.

 

[cr5]

Yes I realize now I screwed up ,,, (call me a lucky newb). Seen posts about loads starting at 41.5 and going up to 43.3 grains.. The ultimate reloaded series uses all my exact setup and loads at 43 grains .... (Now assuming he was loading 120 grain bullets but the video never did say exactly what bullet it was ...., I figured my load would be between 42.8 and 43.1 grains ,,,,, Just bad info and a dummy reloading for the first time ..... Starting new at 38.5 grains and working up to 41.5 is my new plan .... Going to range to do testing tomorrow ..... Wish me luck ��
Ps I was watching for pressure signs after each shot and I am actually surprised that 42 grains looks exactly like 43.3 no signs of pressure ... I would have thought that that much over would have blown or flattened out the primer

I never ever go by what someone else says their loading without first verifying it against published load data. Also as has already been said and I know you will from now on always start low and work upwards even if all you're doing is changing primers, projectiles, or brass.

Good luck