Let me get this straight...

Sardaukar

Sardaukar

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So the original definition of an antique centerfire handgun was:

- Made before 1898
- Does not fire ammo that is 'commonly available'

Later, the Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms specified what calibers were not antique, as the concept of common availability is quite vague.

Now I see on EE revolvers that shoot .45 ACP and come with an antique status RCMP letter. 45 ACP is definitely commonly available and, according to Wikipedia, was invented in 1904.

Now, let me get this straight: .45 ACP is not on the list of prescribed non-antique calibers, and that makes it legal as an antique caliber, even if it's abundantly available and modern.

There has to be something I am missing, because I just can't wrap by brain around that.
 
You are not missing anything. When they wrote the 'commonly available' calibers list they were obviously only thinking about calibers available to guns of that era, I guess they never figured guys would convert some antiques to 'modern', still widely used calibers like .45ACP, 44spl or 38spl.
 
Yet if you take a black powder revolver, say an 1851 Colt and convert it to centerfire no matter the caliber it's no longer an antique.

God the laws are so stupid....
 
To the best of my knowledge, there is a list of calibres that the CFC defines as not antique calibres. They are, most convieniently, the more popular rounds of the late 1800's. .45 Colt, .44 WCF, .32 Short and Longs of some types, etc...

If it is not on that list, then you are good to go. Colt SAA frames made prior 1898, but firing .44 Special introduced 1906 for example. .44 Russian, .44 American, .41 Long Colt, .455, .450 Adams, .45 Schofield, the list goes on. Also anything percussion.
 
The original chambering is what counts.

Very few antique firearms can take the high pressures of "modern" ammunition such as .45 ACP. A gun modified to accept .45 ACP needs reloads that replicate the original pressures, velocities etc.

One of the stickies in this forum has links to the legal documents.
 
Short Knife Johnson said:
To the best of my knowledge, there is a list of calibres that the CFC defines as not antique calibres. They are, most convieniently, the more popular rounds of the late 1800's. .45 Colt, .44 WCF, .32 Short and Longs of some types, etc...

If it is not on that list, then you are good to go. Colt SAA frames made prior 1898, but firing .44 Special introduced 1906 for example. .44 Russian, .44 American, .41 Long Colt, .455, .450 Adams, .45 Schofield, the list goes on. Also anything percussion.
Click to expand...

Handguns:

* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson; 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges
 
41 Colt said:
You are not missing anything. When they wrote the 'commonly available' calibers list they were obviously only thinking about calibers available to guns of that era, I guess they never figured guys would convert some antiques to 'modern', still widely used calibers like .45ACP, 44spl or 38spl.
Click to expand...

That's what I tought happened. They made the list to clarify the status of calibers that were on the edge between common and uncommon, and worded it in a way that allows modern calibers. I just couldn't believe they made such a stupid mistake.

People who write laws are high level jurists who are usually very intelligent people, but I guess when you don't know jack about what you write on being intelligent isn't that helpful.

I will definitly own an antique revolver in the next 12 months.
 
vettes said:
ok, so if the original caliber was 45 and used blackpowder, it is or isnt exempt from antique? I assume 45 colt in smokeless is a current, but if its 45 colt in black powder its not a current cartridge?
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45 Colt and 45 Automatic Colt Pistol are not the same thing. That got me confused at first. What is inside the brass is not relevant.

Check out the sticky about antique regulations. Mooncoon posted scans of the law in page 2. The no-no list is in there, from the horse's mouth.
 
tiriaq said:
?
Could you explain?
Click to expand...

The Criminal Code defines antique firearms as:

* firearms manufactured before 1898 that were not designed or re-designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition, or
* firearms prescribed as antique firearms in the Criminal Code regulations. These are:

From what I understand of the above is if I took my 1851 Colt Navy and converted it to fire centerfire ammunition I could no longer call it an antique.
 
drache said:
The Criminal Code defines antique firearms as:

* firearms manufactured before 1898 that were not designed or re-designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition, or
* firearms prescribed as antique firearms in the Criminal Code regulations. These are:

From what I understand of the above is if I took my 1851 Colt Navy and converted it to fire centerfire ammunition I could no longer call it an antique.
Click to expand...

Well Colt beat us all to it i guess :p theres lotsa 1851 Colts that are converted to shoot cartridges both rf and cf models are sold all the time and are perscribed antique.

As long as there not converted to a cartridge on the no list they would be perscribed antiques.
Theres orignal Remington 1858 percussion revolvers that have RCMP letters that are were converted to fire 44 russian sold in the EE so im pretty sure your ok as long as its not a cartridge on the no list.
 
The key word is 'or'. That means if you have a 1851 converted to cartridge, it is still an antique if the second option applies (i.e., not chambered in one of the no-go cartridges).
 
If you go up to the scanned regs, you will notice that designed or redesigned refers to guns covered under section 84 1a. If the gun is pre 1898 and not covered by cc84 1a, then it falls under cc 84 1b and that is where the list of no go cartridges comes into play (and are found in SOR 98-464). The law does not say that converted muzzle loading pistols are modern, categorically. It says that if they are proscribed to be antique under cc 84 1b and SOR 98-464, then they are still antique.

cheers mooncoon
 
drache said:
Yet if you take a black powder revolver, say an 1851 Colt and convert it to centerfire no matter the caliber it's no longer an antique.
not so...
The big iron makers have been doing cartridge conversions since the metallic cartridge came into vogue.
I currently own one of the first in a Remington New Model Army.
4574 were converted under the Rollin White patent(1855) owned by Smith and Wesson.Remington paid S&W a $1 royalty per conversion.The Remington conversions under the Rollin White Patent predate even S&W cartridge revolvers by aprox. 4 years.

God the laws are so stupid....

you've got that right!!!
Click to expand...

oops...shoulda read the whole thread before responding...:redface:
 
I think it is important to read the original laws which are scanned and posted in the stickies. Abreviated forms found on the firearms center webpage can easily contain misinterpretations or omit vital details

cheers mooncoon
 
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