Lets see your pre 64 model 70's

Thanks Davey. I spent a couple weeks hunting thinhorns. Didn't get one but was very happy to get this guy and a nice goat. My hunting buddy and I took this guy with two simultaneous hits at 510 yards.
 
We did host an Albertan with us on that hunt Noel and I could do that again in the future. We were in the very Northern mountains of BC, I won't get more specific than that.
 
First, I'd like to say that those guns in the pictures are sweet.

Couple of questions here. Why the pre 64. What is significant to the model 70's pre 64. Also, I think I need a pre 64 in 30-06. If I find one, what kind of prices am I looking at?
 
Pre'64's are multiplying over here at my house...got #5 in the mail today...action only.
I put the '51 barreled action in 270 into my Supergrade stock...with old 2.5-8X B&L in adjustable mount it's a nice old rig. The rechambered 257 is now only an action.
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Awesome Matt :cool:! Looks like you took out his spine? Were you shooting down on him?

Very cool either way!

P.S. After another look at your pic, is that a nanny? Just curious, not that it matters...
 
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sharp shooter said:
First, I'd like to say that those guns in the pictures are sweet.

Couple of questions here. Why the pre 64. What is significant to the model 70's pre 64. Also, I think I need a pre 64 in 30-06. If I find one, what kind of prices am I looking at?
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In 1964, Winchester redesigned the Model 70 and a bunch of other products in their lines, and made them cheaper. More stamped parts, crappier finish, cheaper wood. They changed from the controlled round feed that the Mauser design has, to a push feed design, pretty much like Remington has with the Model 700, another design that was made to be built cheaply.

It was much touted as pretty much that yer #### would fall off, if you bought one of the new models. Made for something for the opinionated gun writers to argue about before black rifles came along.

I have a '58 or '59 Model 70 that my father bought new. It's a pretty decent rifle, considering that the firing pin is about a 32nd of an inch off center.

The basis of the design is an evolution of the '98 Mauser, the trigger is simple and works. Good product, made to a price at a time when expectations were higher. Lots of hand work and fitting in the manufacture = added costs to the maker. Still, any time spent around one of these with an eye for details, will sort out in a hurry, why there were gunsmiths everywhere. Production rifles were not any great screaming shakes, as far as build quality off the line was concerned, and there was a lot of improvement possible for a good mechanic to be able to do.

The legend is large. The truth is a bit shy of the legend, but compared to what consumers have become accustomed to, they were pretty well built.

You can get about 90 percent of the feel of the Pre'64 in a modern built one. Maybe more, if you don't get a well cared for example. The rest will have to come from cycling the action thousands of times.

Values? All over the place. Lots of guys figure that they are holding pure gold, when what they have is a pick-up truck grade rifle that should be out being shot, or a donor grade rifle that is never going to shoot well and should be off being rebarreled.
Unless you are prepared to pay too much and be satisfied with it, you are best off finding out as much as you can about the what's and why's of the various models and variations, and how those relate to what the price should reflect. Educate yourself or swim with the sharks.

Or just buy one of the new FN made ones. I hear they are pretty good.

Cheers
Trev
 
trevj said:
In 1964, Winchester redesigned the Model 70 and a bunch of other products in their lines, and made them cheaper. More stamped parts, crappier finish, cheaper wood. They changed from the controlled round feed that the Mauser design has, to a push feed design, pretty much like Remington has with the Model 700, another design that was made to be built cheaply.

It was much touted as pretty much that yer #### would fall off, if you bought one of the new models. Made for something for the opinionated gun writers to argue about before black rifles came along.

I have a '58 or '59 Model 70 that my father bought new. It's a pretty decent rifle, considering that the firing pin is about a 32nd of an inch off center.

The basis of the design is an evolution of the '98 Mauser, the trigger is simple and works. Good product, made to a price at a time when expectations were higher. Lots of hand work and fitting in the manufacture = added costs to the maker. Still, any time spent around one of these with an eye for details, will sort out in a hurry, why there were gunsmiths everywhere. Production rifles were not any great screaming shakes, as far as build quality off the line was concerned, and there was a lot of improvement possible for a good mechanic to be able to do.

The legend is large. The truth is a bit shy of the legend, but compared to what consumers have become accustomed to, they were pretty well built.

You can get about 90 percent of the feel of the Pre'64 in a modern built one. Maybe more, if you don't get a well cared for example. The rest will have to come from cycling the action thousands of times.

Values? All over the place. Lots of guys figure that they are holding pure gold, when what they have is a pick-up truck grade rifle that should be out being shot, or a donor grade rifle that is never going to shoot well and should be off being rebarreled.
Unless you are prepared to pay too much and be satisfied with it, you are best off finding out as much as you can about the what's and why's of the various models and variations, and how those relate to what the price should reflect. Educate yourself or swim with the sharks.

Or just buy one of the new FN made ones. I hear they are pretty good.

Cheers
Trev
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Trev pretty much sums up the way I feel about them....they are good rifles but far from perfect and not the "end all" & "be all" that some make them out to be....I've owned and handled some M70 Classics that were as good as a Pre'64, well, maybe the investment cast extractors aren't up to the Pre'64' standards.....and the new FN built M70's are better than the original in more than one way.....gas handling is one..something 99% of us will never have to worry about but if it comes into play it might help you out....I'm not convinced the new FN trigger is better,..the one I had apart wouldn't go below 3-1/2#'s...and I wasn't about to tear into the innards of it...it weren't my rifle,....the old M70 trigger can be worked to under three pounds, my preferred max pull weight for a hunting rifle...
I have currently five Pre'64 Model 70's and have owned three others...only one I miss was a 300 Win Mag....1963 version of course...by the time I'm done building and sorting out the ones I have I may let a few go....
 
BigUglyMan said:
What exactly do you have planned for those nekkid actions Rembo...
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one is soon headed to a very good 'smith along with an A&B chrome-moly blank I've had kicking around here for a while, it'll return as a 308 Norma bedded into a McMillan Supergrade stock.....the other is a standard 30-06 action and it might become a 280 or a 280AI.....or maybe not. No definite plans on that one yet. I have some 700's to clear out to free up some funds for a project...
 
Rembo said:
one is soon headed to a very good 'smith along with an A&B chrome-moly blank I've had kicking around here for a while, it'll return as a 308 Norma bedded into a McMillan Supergrade stock.....the other is a standard 30-06 action and it might become a 280 or a 280AI.....or maybe not. No definite plans on that one yet. I have some 700's to clear out to free up some funds for a project...
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I was afraid they'd end up on the EE and I'd be put in a bad place.
 
ron hilchey said:
My buddy gave this to me the other day. His Dad bought it brand new in 1963. .220 Swift heavy barrel, origional box of ammo and scope.
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I'd pay real money for that rifle......;)

Shot a couple of my Pre'64's yesterday.

The '53 Fwt 308 is a pretty good shooter...shot factory Federal 165 Fusions and 150 RP CoreLoct's.....mounted a 3-9X Leupold VariX-II.

It put three Fusions into groups of 1.3" and 2-1/4" at 200 meters...I thought this was pretty good....then it followed that up with a group of 2.08" at 300 meters....

this with factory bedding(none), a 3-9X scope and factory ammo......proving that old Pre'64 M70's can shoot:)..not sure if I'll bother digging out the dies for this one...I'm sure the 165 Fusion bullet will kill deer quite dead...

The '51 vintage 270 didn't shoot the 140 Accubond Federal load as well as it shot the 140gr Hornady SST factory ammo last time out. The Hornady ammo shot 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" at 100 meters....
It shows a lot of vertical stringing with the Federal Accubond load......200M group was 4"...mostly vertical...300M group, well if you can call 8" a group:confused:, was also mostly vertical dispersion.
May have to play around with the fore-end screw,or stick with the 140 Hornady load......I'm sure the 140 SST will also kill deer dead....:cool:
 
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