Lets talk about Girsan

I have recently acquired a Girsan Regard MC R9... In another thread here (search on that specific model) you'll find a range report. Bottom line - I like the pistol a lot as it offers terrific value and far better quality than one would expect for a more economical pistol.

That having been said, I'm just about to remove its factory non-adjustable rear sight and install a Beretta (LPA) adjustable sight. Has anybody here done this? If so, does the Beretta sight fit? Also, is it a tapered dovetail which requires the sight to be drifted in a specific direction?
 
Hitzy said:
Dunno about the 1911's, the 92 is a 92F clone, not 92 FS, it lacks the big slide button that keeps it from hitting you in the face if the front of the slide cracks, front sight is part of the slide, not dovetailed.
Everything 92 fits it for the most part, locking block is different, grip profile is different a wee bit and looks a bit off unless you file them. Everything else I've tried fits fine... extractor, guide rods, springs, slide stops, pins etc.
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Sweet, I'm looking to buy some new springs for my Regard. Good to know ones made for 92 will work just fine.
 
I had my Regard out to the range yesterday and I was real impressed with how well it shot. I was using cheap Remington UMC and put 100 trouble free rounds downrange. I was pleasantly surprised of the groups I was getting. I purchased the full sized stainless Regard and it seemed to get some attention at the range. Other shooters who asked what I was shooting were very surprised it was Turkish made. I offered others a chance to shoot it, but they were content with just handling it and all were impressed by the fit and finish, even the ones who owned Beretta 92's. Im definitely happy with my purchase
 
wai762 said:
For those with the 1911 or 92FS clone, are they mil spec ? Would you be able to install parts from Brownell etc ?
I have read on the web that the Girsan 1911 uses metric grip screw and grip bushing like the Norinco ( the post was from somewhere in 2000 ), and the grip screw head is too big for standard 1911 grips.
The price sure looks good, but something that can accept all mil spec parts seem better.
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I have a girsan 1911, commander length with rail. Yes the grip screws are metric and the screws head is bigger than standard grips, you would have to swap out bushings I would expect if you wanted to run off the shelf 1911 grips and screws.

A couple first hand observations, fit and finish is nice for a cheaper priced 1911. I’ve had ftf issues since day one but I’m pretty sure it’s a mag issue, I’ve replaced the recoil spring and tuned the extractor, polished the feed ramp and it didn’t change much. I don’t shoot 45 much so I’ve been lazy about buying a quality mag like a Wilson or Tripp too confirm my hunch. It shoots low with the factory sights, like 6-7” low at 15-20yds. I’ve shot it off bags to confirm, groups are nice just low. I’m going to file down the factory front sight to adjust but as I said I don’t shoot it much since moving away from the city. I’ve probably put 500-800 rds through it, my generation of it comes with Italian ACT mags which seem to get good reviews.

If I had to do it over again I’d buy something else for a 1911 but I didn’t pay anything for it, I got brand new in the box in trade from a friend. It was never fired or monkeyed with, it seems to take standard parts. I’ve swapped in a Dlask mag release and recoil spring but have yet to fit a Dlask ambi safety, once I start reloading over this winter I will start shooting it more and work through its issues.
 
If I may offer a different perspective on this topic...
This is only my opinion so you are free to disagree.

Most people who testify their clones to be the greatest do so to justify their purchase.
Clones are generally inferior to the real one in almost every way:

-Less reliable due to design flaws or subpar quality control
-Parts durability is questionable due to the reason above
-Has minimal aftermarket support and OEM parts availability
-Parts from the real one may not be compatible with the clone
-May not have warranty
-Terrible resell value

If you are happy with your Girsan, great. But if you can, try to get your hands on Beretta.
 
turtle4123 said:
If you are happy with your Girsan, great. But if you can, try to get your hands on Beretta.
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I did. I had the 92fs, M9 and Regard in my hands at the same time at the gun counter. I played with all three and took down the 92 and Girsan to see the internals. I also found the Girsan to be much smoother out of the box and I could not tell the difference in trigger pull between the 92 and the Girsan. The Girsan also doesn't have any polymer components like the Beretta does. I originally walked in to purchase the 92, but made the decision to purchase the Girsan.
 
turtle4123 said:
If I may offer a different perspective on this topic...
This is only my opinion so you are free to disagree.

Most people who testify their clones to be the greatest do so to justify their purchase.
Clones are generally inferior to the real one in almost every way:

-Less reliable due to design flaws or subpar quality control
-Parts durability is questionable due to the reason above
-Has minimal aftermarket support and OEM parts availability
-Parts from the real one may not be compatible with the clone
-May not have warranty
-Terrible resell value

If you are happy with your Girsan, great. But if you can, try to get your hands on Beretta.
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all you wrote can be said about turkish shotguns even the ones sold by big names and guess what i will buy what fit my needs turkish or not ...
 
turtle4123 said:
Clone or not, buying a new handgun is always exciting :) Congrat on your purchase.

Now go send some down range!
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Agree. And I’m not insinuating that one is better than the other. I’m simply stating what I observed. And yes, a new handgun is always fun.....which is precisely why I put the money saved choosing the Regard to good use and also bought a Sig 1911. I guess I was head bent on leaving money at the retailer that morning. The more the merrier I guess...
 
turtle4123 said:
If I may offer a different perspective on this topic...
This is only my opinion so you are free to disagree.

Most people who testify their clones to be the greatest do so to justify their purchase.
Clones are generally inferior to the real one in almost every way:

-Less reliable due to design flaws or subpar quality control
-Parts durability is questionable due to the reason above
-Has minimal aftermarket support and OEM parts availability
-Parts from the real one may not be compatible with the clone
-May not have warranty
-Terrible resell value

If you are happy with your Girsan, great. But if you can, try to get your hands on Beretta.
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First of all, we are not dealing with some Norinco clone here lol.

-Less reliable due to design flaws or subpar quality control
There are some terrible shotguns coming out of Turkey, but they are usually sub $300 units. Girsan is ISO 9001 certified and make very good stuff, the 92 types have been made since 1995, and pass NATO standards (Turkey is a member of NATO).
-Parts durability is questionable due to the reason above In all aspects, it's as well made or better made then a Beretta, no plastic parts, everything is well machined, tightly fit, and the ceracote type finish is quite durable.
-Has minimal aftermarket support and OEM parts availability on the 92's, everything Beretta I tried fits, the locking block is the only thing in question, sources say they don't, I haven't tried replacing one yet but I have one on hand, no idea on the 1911's, but like the majority of 1911's not alot drops in, every manufacturer puts their own little tweak on things. Plus unless it's a Colt 1911 it's a clone. Some of the non-Colt 1911's are miles above what Colt puts out.
-Parts from the real one may not be compatible with the clone see above
-May not have warranty Ruger has no warranty at all, people have no problem buying those. I don't recall if the Girsan came with a warranty, I'd have to check the manual, but I suspect it does. If its NS that warranties it, well it's as useless as everything else they import and warranty.
-Terrible resell value well, if I get $350 for my $450 92 clone when I want to sell it, vs $700 for a $1000 Beretta, it's something I can swallow lol.
They are good looking, good shooting cheap pistols...what's not to like?
 
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I installed a complete M*Carbo Pro Trigger Kit today in my Girsan Regard. It has the exact same disassembly as the 92. The only difference was the locking block configuration, grip screws, and there is no groove to retain the trigger spring on the trigger bar although a 92 trigger bar would still work in it.

The kit contained:

12 lb Hammer Spring (which I used)
13 lb Hammer Spring
14 lb Hammer Spring
Lighter Firing Pin Return Spring
Improved Extractor Spring
Lighter Trigger Return Spring
Lighter Sear Spring
15 lb Extra Power Recoil Spring

I also polished the sear and hammer lightly. The trigger pull is much lighter in double action and is also improved in single. I am going to take it to the range tomorrow and give it a good workout.

450 rounds so far and still loving the Girsan.
 
If I recall correctly the Girsan "clone" is a "copy" made on Beretta equipment supplied by Beretta It is a copy of the 92F not the 92FS. The Beretta equipment was supplied to Turkey when the Turkish Army selected the 92F as it's Army issue pistol.

The Turks have been making firearms since Christ was a Corporal to spin a phrase. CZ Shotguns are made in Turkey.

There is nothing wrong with Girsan's quality control. I have their Compact version of the 92F Compact. It has been a reliable shooter. That said I did opt to go Beretta and own two 92A1's. In my mind there is no daylight between the two makes. I got my 92A1's off of the EE for slightly more that the Girsan goes for. The newer versions of the 92 eg 92A1, 92FS & M9's do come with some improvements over the Girsan version.

For what you can often get a 92FS for I would sooner buy a slightly used pistol 92FS than go with a Girsan but we all have to decide where we spend our dollars and where we see value and where we don't. A slightly used 92FS recently went for $600 on the EE.

Take Care

Bob
 
I have a less rosy opinion on Girsan pistols, specifically their Beretta clones. And unlike the majority of you, I can point to a sample size larger than one.

I worked at a busy rental range as a full time RSO / Instructor for a number of years. We purchased 5 Girsan Beretta clones since they were significantly cheaper than actual Berettas, and according to the distributor, they came with a better warranty too. It seemed like a no brainer.

Well fast forward a couple of days, and one of the pistols had a cracked barrel after 200 rounds of CCI Blazer. We tried to get a warranty replacement only to be told that it couldn't possibly have failed so early and they refused to warranty it. That became a parts gun. Eventually, the remaining four Girsan clones died in under a year. None of them made it beyond 5000 rds IIRC, and that's with weekly cleaning and inspection. The failures varied, but at least one other pistol had a cracked barrel as well. One of them had the frame crack in the locking block raceways. They were fed nothing but factory ammo the whole time.

We never ended up getting any warranty on any of the guns. Eventually the Girsans were gutted as parts guns to keep actual Berettas in service, and the donated parts actually lasted a fair bit.

I'll admit that I was initially impressed with the fit and finish of the pistols when they first arrived. I quickly became wary of them after a few weeks in action, and I continue to do so. Maybe these first guns had poor QC, or poor quality materials / coatings / finishings / heat treatment. Maybe the new ones are better now. I don't know for sure, but for my money I'll save for the genuine article instead. Buy once, cry once. YMMV.
 
~ 1500 rounds through my Girsan MC28 with no functional issues. I've found the trigger has gotten a tad bit better and overall, it accuracy is as good as I need to it be for a recreational shooter. I am planning on selling it shortly to opt for a CZ Shadow 75 SP-01 but I am very happy with the price, reliability, and functionality.
 
The Cocker said:
I have one of the Beretta 92 clones..I was very surprised with the fit and finish. The parts fit with very close tolerances, and the slide is extremely smooth to rack. I feel like it's worth more than $479.
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I heard the Girsan clone was made with the same Beretta machinery. It's essentially the same, just doesn't have Beretta name. I was told anyway.
 
Hitzy said:
...Ruger has no warranty at all, people have no problem buying those...
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That's a deceptive statement. Ruger will fix any Ruger product that is returned to a Ruger warranty station. In my experience, it's been at no charge to me.

<https://www.snapshotsguns.com/warranty-services>

<https://www.facebook.com/locationsnapshots/>

<https://www.snapshotsguns.com/contact>

Firearms that are returned to Ruger for service are evaluated to determine if the service is to be provided at a fee or no-charge basis. The following price schedule will serve as a guide in estimating the cost of service that we provide and represents the most commonly requested services. Some products may be out of production or are not being serviced at this time, click here to view a list of these products.

<https://ruger.com/service/partsService.html>
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