Let's Talk Big Bores

4fifty8 said:
.45-70 & .450M Ruger No.1's can be handloaded well beyond factory ammo levels: https://i.imgur.com/4kg8kZp.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/QbYVD9V.jpg

Also .450M BLR: https://i.imgur.com/fUL0mCv.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/1itYMDI.jpg
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Buffalo Bore sells similar ammo. But they're still a big step away from your 416s and 458s.

From a caliber perspective they're 45+cal so nobody would argue they aren't a big bore if that's the only criteria you have, but many people consider "Big bore" to be more than just caliber.


I've always thought of it as:
Small bore: up to 30cal
Medium bore: >30-40cal
Big Bore: >40cal

But clearly there is no consensus on that.
 
I had a Ruger No. 1 in 450 NE 3 1/4".

Factory loads meant for double rifles are in 458 Win Mag territory, but the case has a lot of capacity. In the No. 1 I got a 500 grain TSX up to 2450 fps.

That rifle was too light, it only weighed 7.5 lbs as it had a medium profile barrel instead of the tropical profile (Craig Boddington special edition). I put a copper tube full of lead shot in the butt stock and put on a scope to bring it to 9.5 lbs to make it somewhat manageable.

Without the lead tube and scope it was 120 ft-lbf recoil energy. Even with the weight it was still 95.

I wonder if that rifle played a roll in my recent shoulder issues.
 
cam1936 said:
I had a Ruger No. 1 in 450 NE 3 1/4".

Factory loads meant for double rifles are in 458 Win Mag territory, but the case has a lot of capacity. In the No. 1 I got a 500 grain TSX up to 2450 fps.

That rifle was too light, it only weighed 7.5 lbs as it had a medium profile barrel instead of the tropical profile (Craig Boddington special edition). I put a copper tube full of lead shot in the butt stock and put on a scope to bring it to 9.5 lbs to make it somewhat manageable.

I wonder if that rifle played a roll in my recent shoulder issues.
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It probably contributed, as is my case too. Mine's rotator cuff tendinosis. :)
 
I own some medium bores rifles, but no big bores. Mostly because it's just so difficult and expensive to give a nice big bore rifle some proper work to do. There is no "need" for a big bore in Canada. By need I mean "required to get the job done". Like a dangerous game stopping rifle. I am going to hunt elephant in March with a rented .375 H&H, which is what my PH recommends. He carries a .500 Nitro Express SxS, which is a proper stopping rifle for charging elephant and buffalo when situations demand it. I would have liked to carry my .450-400 3" nitro express double barrel Merkel for elephant, but can't get a Canadian export/transport permit to take it to Zimbabwe. So I'm renting a .375.

I like using my 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R and .375 H&H on local game and they work just fine on elk and moose and bears. The .450-400 3" was supposed to be my elephant and buffalo rifle. So far it's only taken one cape buffalo in Namibia, and I was pleased that I could actually use it for that purpose. It was perfect for that hunt. I've also used it for elk and moose, but mostly for the experience, not because it was a "sensible" thing to do.

I've never shot a rifle more powerful than a .416 Remington. Probably won't. I enjoy results, but not recoil. Those who like recoil, knock yourself out. Recoil is not something I crave. Actually one of the hardest kicking rifles I've shot was a Marlin guide gun 45-70 with maximum 400 gr. hand loads. Not a "big bore" in my opinion, but it sure did kick. Light, short barrel, and handy but with lots of drop to the stock and limited in use as a short range gun with looping trajectory. After playing with it a few years, I realized didn't have a good use for it so sold it.

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Late arrival here, they start at .45 and 500grs in my mind. I played with, built them, and shot them extensively (.450 Rigby, .450 Nitro, .470 Nitro, .505 Gibbs, .577 3”, etc). I only ever hunted the .505, if you want to know what it’s like in effect load a hard cast round ball in a 12ga. In other words, very underwhelming, North American game with the exception of wild bison just aren’t big enough to need the penetration or bullets that stiff. All that OIC inducing energy just goes out the other side of the animal. Usually, the rounds are slow to 2200fps and under typically, making them compare poorly to modern chamberings for rapid effects on game. A .270 will be more reliably impressive. This is talking conventional shots on North American game, not headshots on buffalo for which they will indeed outperform the .270.

What they do of course is penetrate to absurd effect, and that’s where they still reign. With the exception of the .458 Lott, it penetrates and has speed, and modern bullets. I view it as more useful than the others. The old Nitro Expresses, while I fell heavily in love with the panache and nostalgia, haven’t aged well in modern company. Those that have received modern attention like the Lott have fared better. All of my Africa trips, I packed a .375 despite having good photo opportunities for a big bore and shooting them back home.
 
Longwalker said:
I own some medium bores rifles, but no big bores. Mostly because it's just so difficult and expensive to give a nice big bore rifle some proper work to do. There is no "need" for a big bore in Canada. By need I mean "required to get the job done". Like a dangerous game stopping rifle. I am going to hunt elephant in March with a rented .375 H&H, which is what my PH recommends. He carries a .500 Nitro Express SxS, which is a proper stopping rifle for charging elephant and buffalo when situations demand it. I would have liked to carry my .450-400 3" nitro express double barrel Merkel for elephant, but can't get a Canadian export/transport permit to take it to Zimbabwe. So I'm renting a .375.

I like using my 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R and .375 H&H on local game and they work just fine on elk and moose and bears. The .450-400 3" was supposed to be my elephant and buffalo rifle. So far it's only taken one cape buffalo in Namibia, and I was pleased that I could actually use it for that purpose. It was perfect for that hunt. I've also used it for elk and moose, but mostly for the experience, not because it was a "sensible" thing to do.

I've never shot a rifle more powerful than a .416 Remington. Probably won't. I enjoy results, but not recoil. Those who like recoil, knock yourself out. Recoil is not something I crave. Actually one of the hardest kicking rifles I've shot was a Marlin guide gun 45-70 with maximum 400 gr. hand loads. Not a "big bore" in my opinion, but it sure did kick. Light, short barrel, and handy but with lots of drop to the stock and limited in use as a short range gun with looping trajectory. After playing with it a few years, I realized didn't have a good use for it so sold it.

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nice picture and rifle. a shame for the zim issues on firearms i thought the end of mugabe will ease those restrictions ...
 
If anyone has a hankering for a new big bore, I’m moving out of the big bore realm for good.

Have a .450-400 Nitro reamer on a .416 bore (much easier and better bullets, and the world doesn’t end if you shoot a factory .450-400 through it), .475-110, a .577-500 Jeffery reamer, .577 barrels amongst other amusements I’d swap for .30 cal distractions.
 
I was browsing factory ammo prices last night...holy ####.

458 WM - Average $190/box.

458 Lott - Average $200/box

416 Rigby - $200-250/box.

470/500 Nitro Express - $270/box.

My 375H&H looks downright affordable in comparison.
 
Yikes, that puts new meaning to the saying: "if you wanna play, you have to pay!". Sadly, I thought I did well yesterday when I picked up a box of Sako Gamehead 243 100gr factory ammo at SAIL for $39.99!
 
I wouldn’t even consider big bores without handloading, I’m just too Scottish. I’ve fired maybe a couple hundred factory big bore rounds in my life, in many years of shooting, tinkering, and building them. If you cast, their low velocities lend well to that too, eliminating one of the biggest expenses, you can often get away with a gas checked hard cast and still have full house performance. It makes for a lot of work.

Get ready for all sorts of fun “Huh…” moments, regarding things such as highly substandard and erratic brass, getting consistent ignition in cold temps of 100+ grains of powder, sizable pressure variations in different conditions, trying to make a handload regulate to the sights or other barrel if a double, etc. There’s very little available components wise for most of these, so you have to take what you can get, and it’s often really poor compared to mainstream chamberings.

They’re a labour of love, with lots of the labour aspect. In the end, finding them less effective and useful than .375 H&H put them firmly in the amusements and distractions category for me, I no longer hunt with rounds that can’t make 2500fps at the muzzle.

But… there’s still something about em.

BQRnbJI.jpg
 
Example approx. cost to handload hunting ammo for my .458 WM:

400gr Swift A-Frame $2 ea
Case $2 ea
Powder charge $0.70
Primer $0.12

Total: ~$5 ea, save brass & reload it lowers cost next time around
 
4fifty8 said:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're comparing standard 458 win mag loads to extra spicy, only safe in a Ruger #1 45-70 loads?
 
I've had bb's in 458 Win Mag, 458 Lott, 450 Ackley, and 475 ackley. Couple of 416's if you want to include that bore diameter. I like the 450 Ackley best of the bunch. You can shoot 45 WM and 458 Lott in it, like 22, short, long and long rifle. If the stock is decent recoil isnt that bad. 45-70's, unless they are built on a stout bolt gun or a ruger number 1 or similar just dont have the ballistics. - dan
 
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