Lets talk CWD

flyingdutchman86

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Calgary, AB
Hi gents,

Here’s my scenario; 3 AB mule deer were taken in my group this year, two tested positive for CWD, and the third guy didn’t bother with testing, since two of the bucks came back positive, we can assume the third is as well. Buddy with the untested buck is now sharing the meat around with family and friends, and not everyone receiving the meat is aware of CWD, to say the least it’s generated a fair bit of discussion on eating CWD animals in the family.

I have read everything I can find online about CWD and spoke to a CO, and the prevailing advice is basically this; “there’s no evidence of animal to human transmission of CWD...... but we don’t actually know, so don’t consume it”. There was a U of A study done recently that did show deer to primate transmission, and the NY state fish and wildlife website stated that cooking the meat thoroughly does not kill the Prion’s associated with CWD... (the “just cook it thoroughly” argument is popular with the old boys in our group”...

Since I have a 1 year old and there’s plenty of other youngsters in the circle, the decision for me is easy, don’t risk it. But it does break my heart to see these animals go to waste, so I’m curious what everyone else’s opinions are.

Kind regards, Aaron
Calgary AB
 
at my age, I'd eat it but I sure wouldn't feed it to a kid or anyone who wasn't aware of the risk. Can't believe anyone would but people also vote liberal and I can't believe that either.
 
That was a good read thanks for the link. Troubling little note in there about a 2017 Health Canada report with guidance that is yet to be released.

Probably the best written scientific Canadian paper on CWD by a number of prominent Canadian wildlife biologist (including my friend the late Dr. Vince Chrichton):

https://mwf.mb.ca/archives/709

Bottom line - I would not eat it or share it with anyone.
 
Lots of prion disease can affect humans, thank game farms, hunters using deer p*ss and a general lack of knowledge
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hkYYgvyVh70

Look at the beef industry, killing animals before they can become symptomatic lol, dose t mean the prions aren’t there and people aren’t eating them.

Why would anyone trust government guidelines in dealing with suspected cwd positive animals. It’s the same stupidity around the spike protein and injecting a “vaxx” that causes your body to produce it. How many alzs deaths actually have an autopsy.
 
I wouldn’t eat either.

I’ve often wondered about people that take their deer to butcher shops. Your deer might test negative for CWD, but who’s to say some of the other deer that have been processed there weren’t positive? The prions will be on the equipment, in the grinder, in the smoker.

There’s also been some speculation and research that plants grown in CWD infected soil can take up the prions. Imagine what that would do to the ag industry in North America. Scary stuff.
 
This is a old old argument. There's evidence that people who insisted on eating the brains of squirrels got some kind of brain disease and even older evidence that cannibals on some island got some kind of brain disease also. And of course mad cow disease is know to cross over to people. So best thing is to just destroy the meat and go on with life.
 
Dutch - If you don't mind could you tell us what WMU the mule deer came from? I'd really like to know.
 
Where it makes no sense to me is in the testing requirements based on management zones. I live on the AB/SK border(AB side). Hwy 17 runs north-south separating the two provinces in this area. Hwy 16 runs east-west through both provinces. South of 16 on AB side in my area is WMZ 236 and it is mandatory testing for both Whitetail and Mulies. North of 16 is WMZ and two years ago it was mandatory testiing too. As of last year it's no longer mandatory for either species. You can submit both species though from WMZ 256 if you want at no cost. It's not mandatory in SK either and if memory serves SK hunters can have theirs tested at a cost of $50? To me the kicker is I watch deer cross both highways in and out of WMZ 236, the mandatory test zone. Makes no sense bordering zones do not require testing? Realistically if one area is mandatory shouldn't the entire province be? I have submitted all my mulies for testing and they were shot in 236(mandatory zone). All have tested negative and all were antlerless. Until this year I also submitted heads from whitetails we shot in 256 and all returned negative and all of them have been antlered. If the problem seems to be prevalent in antlered Mule deer then I'll skip applying for antlered mulies.
 
There’s no cost in Saskatchewan for testing. What we’ve been seeing in southern Sask is it seems to be disproportionately affecting Mule deer. It seems to kill bucks and does equally. My friend, who ranches on the SS river northeast of Swift Current and is an avid hunter, tells me that there are no trophy animals left in his area, and to his well trained eye it appears there are no deer over the age of 3 years. He regularly finds dead and dying deer on his ranch and he estimates the deer population is at about 10% of normal.
 
I'm not very worried about it infecting me. We are fortunate that in Manitoba, there are no known cases in Whitetail deer yet. All cases were found in mule deer. We now have a mandatory testing program, and will have an idea of if it has spread to the whitetail population.

There is zero evidence of transmission to humans. Its all theoretical mouse studies with injected infectious material. Not eaten. No increase in human cases of cruetzfield jacob disease in states that have had it for over 20 years, and have been monitoring it for over 16 years. There are no prions to be found in the meat of an infected animal, it is confined to brain, spinal cord and some internal organs and lymph nodes. It has great potential to devistate the deer population, but no evidence it has any impact on humans.
 
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Where it makes no sense to me is in the testing requirements based on management zones. I live on the AB/SK border(AB side). Hwy 17 runs north-south separating the two provinces in this area. Hwy 16 runs east-west through both provinces. South of 16 on AB side in my area is WMZ 236 and it is mandatory testing for both Whitetail and Mulies. North of 16 is WMZ and two years ago it was mandatory testiing too. As of last year it's no longer mandatory for either species. You can submit both species though from WMZ 256 if you want at no cost. It's not mandatory in SK either and if memory serves SK hunters can have theirs tested at a cost of $50? To me the kicker is I watch deer cross both highways in and out of WMZ 236, the mandatory test zone. Makes no sense bordering zones do not require testing? Realistically if one area is mandatory shouldn't the entire province be? I have submitted all my mulies for testing and they were shot in 236(mandatory zone). All have tested negative and all were antlerless. Until this year I also submitted heads from whitetails we shot in 256 and all returned negative and all of them have been antlered. If the problem seems to be prevalent in antlered Mule deer then I'll skip applying for antlered mulies.

Is a lot about government response to CWD that does not make a lot of sense to me. We used to hunt Sask Zone 46 - so South of Highway 16, North of Highway 14, against West Sask border with Alberta - so generally South and East from Lloyd. As per most information, the CWD outbreak in Canada started from a game farm near Neilburg, Sask - and that Zone 46 seemed to get it first, in the wild mule deer and white tails. As I recall, was much information sent out by Sask authorities - at the time stating that the "prion" was found in more or less clear fluids in the animals - so like tears, saliva, snot, urine, spine fluid, joint fluid - and was NOT found to exist in blood or red meat - I see the link above now states that the prion has also now been found in blood, meat and fat.

So we changed the way that we processed deer - no longer any saw cuts across bone. Did not separate joints. Basically "filleted" the red meat from the deer carcass. It was always a curiosity to me that the authorities wanted us to sever the head from the carcass and submit the head for testing - I do not know how to do that without cutting through the spine? And I see a video by Sask DNR showing how to open up the skull and remove a portion of the brain for their testing - instead of submitting the entire head - so at that point, you do not know if the thing is infected or not - so whatcha going to do with the knives and saws that were used to do that, until you get results back? Going to use them on a second or third deer? And what if it comes back to be positive - now you know your tools are contaminated - again - whatcha going to do with them - can not kill that prion, can not "sterilize" it, and is known to remain viable at least six years.

Is interesting to read what is a "prion" - can not kill it, can not sterilize it, can not make it quit - it is NOT a living thing. So "cooking temperatures" have about no affect on it. Wiping down your knife or saw with Javex to dis-infect, will not kill it. It is my understanding that when a deer or elk "pees" on the ground, or drips some snot or tears or "spit" or "drool" - those prions stay viable - for sure for at least six years laying in the dirt - picked up by plants, etc. - ready to infect whatever next cervid eats that plant.

What I find particularly bizarre is that Saskatchewan and Alberta both paid for extensive "culls" of cervids in that initial outbreak area. Accomplished about nothing to stop the spread of that disease - from current maps, appears that infected animals were moved from one game farm to another - likely by semi truck - all over. I found it to be curious that, for a while - known outbreaks were in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Quebec - as if an infected Cervid hiked across Manitoba and then Ontario, to start a new outbreak in Quebec - not likely - I suspect that prion cluster was transported on a truck - in a farmed game animal.

So, since that "cull" did not work to control the spread of CWD in 1990's in Alberta or Saskatchewan - and one mule deer was identified with CWD here in Western Manitoba - in October (?) 2021 - what was government response? Since the "cull" did not work then and there, let us do it again, here, in late 2021 and early 2022. We could see the black helicopters working the bush across the valley and passing over our house - when we were out in the yard with our dog, we could hear the shots. And we met "convoys" of DNR "recovery teams" that would go into the bush and skid out the shot deer, moose, elk and other cervids - apparently for "testing".

A local guy - not a hunter at all - owns two quarters of land in Manitoba just North and West of here - against the Sask border - he gave permission for Manitoba DNR to access his land for that "cull" - some months later was invited to an area near Shell Mouth, MB - was given two deer carcasses by Manitoba DNR - for free - in thanks for allowing that "cull" on his land. I asked him if the deers had been tested - he had no clue - did not know what is CWD - told me that he and his family ate the two deers.

To your point about those "artificial boundaries" - I think within two days after the helicopters left, was about 20 deer out feeding in a nearby grain field - we are like 4 miles (?) from Saskatchewan - this area has VERY GOOD habitat and feed if you are a deer. So, is no doubt to many of us - if Manitoba actually did clear out all the deer with that "cull", then Saskatchewan deer wandered over and re-populated the area within a few days. I saw several does with fawns this past Spring - so the herd is rebuilding itself here. And all of that gov't effort and taxpayer money did NOT ONE THING about the prion that was left in the dirt by that infected deer - likely now taken up by various plants, so is predictable that the whole cycle will repeat.

Not sure if this CWD is "new" or not - back in the day - this area would have had multiple large predators - coyotes, timber wolves, cougar, grizzly - and I suspect any deer that was even only 2% impaired would have been taken that night - so was not very likely for a disease like CWD to spread. So same government has dutifully had bounties on the predators, for years - to make the wilderness "safe" for farmed livestock. Now that predators mostly gone, same government is responding with "culls" of ALL cervids - and no good reason, known to me, why that will work, either.
 
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Is a lot about government response to CWD that does not make a lot of sense to me. We used to hunt Sask Zone 46 - so South of Highway 16, North of Highway 14, against West Sask border with Alberta - so generally South and East from Lloyd. As per most information, the CWD outbreak in Canada started from a game farm near Neilburg, Sask - and that Zone 46 seemed to get it first, in mule deer and white tails. As I recall, was much information sent out by Sask authorities - at the time stating that the "prion" was found in more or less clear fluids in the animals - so like tears, snot, urine, spine fluid, joint fluid - and was NOT found to exist in blood or red meat - I see the link above now states that the prion has also now been found in blood, meat and fat.

So we changed the way that we processed deer - no longer any saw cuts across bone. Did not separate joints. Basically "filleted" the red meat from the deer carcass.

Is interesting to read what is a "prion" - can not kill it, can not sterilize it, can not make it quit - it is NOT a living thing. So "cooking temperatures" have about no affect on it. Wiping down your knife or saw with Javex to dis-infect, will not kill it. It is my understanding that when a deer or elk "pees" on the ground, or drips some snot or tears - those prions stay viable - for sure for at least six years laying in the dirt - picked up by plants, etc. - ready to infect whatever next cervid eats that plant.

What I find particularly bizarre is that Saskatchewan and Alberta both paid for extensive "culls" of cervids in that initial outbreak area. Accomplished about nothing to stop the spread of that disease - from current maps, appears that infected animals were moved from one game farm to another - likely by semi truck - all over. I found it to be curious that, for a while - known outbreaks were in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Quebec - as if an infected Cervid hiked across Manitoba and then Ontario to start a new outbreak in Quebec - not likely - I suspect that prion cluster was transported on a truck - in a farmed game animal.

So, since that "cull" did not work in 1990's in Alberta or Saskatchewan - and one mule deer was identified with CWD here in Western Manitoba - what was government response? Since the "cull" did not work then and there, let us do it here, again in late 2021 and early 2022. We could see the black helicopters working the bush across the valley and passing over our house - when we were out in the yard with our dog, we could hear the shots. And we met "convoys" of DNR "recovery teams" that would go into the bush and skid out the shot deer - apparently for "testing".

A local guy - not a hunter at all - owns two quarters of land in Manitoba just North and West of here - against the Sask border - he gave permission for Manitoba DNR to access his land for that "cull" - some months later was invited to an area near Shell Mouth, MB - was given two deer carcasses by Manitoba DNR - for free - in thanks for allowing that "cull" on his land. I asked him if the deers had been tested - he had no clue - did not know what is CWD - told me that he and his family ate the two deers.

To your point about those "artificial boundaries" - I think within two days after the helicopters left, was about 20 deer out feeding in a nearby grain field - we are like 4 miles (?) from Saskatchewan - this area has VERY GOOD habitat and feed if you are a deer. So, is no doubt to many of us - if Manitoba actually did clear out all the deer with that "cull", then Saskatchewan deer wandered over to re-populated the area within a few days. And all of that did NOT ONE THING about the prion that was left in the dirt by that infected deer - likely now taken up by various plants, so is predictable that the whole cycle will repeat.

Not sure if this CWD is "new" or not - back in the day - this area would have had multiple large predators - coyotes, timber wolves, cougar, grizzly - and I suspect any deer that was even only 2% impaired would have been taken that night - so was not very likely for a disease like CWD to spread. So same government has dutifully had bounties on the predators, for years - to make the wilderness "safe" for farmed livestock. Now that predators mostly gone, same government is responding with "culls" of ALL cervids - and no good reason to know why that will work, either.

I followed some videos last year being posted as that cull took place in MB. What an absolute waste of animals. Absolutely disgusting behaviour by wildlife officers and game managers.
 
Were these deer taken in southern Alberta? I know the line keeps moving further north every year, but hunting north of Edmonton I usually do not submit for testing... maybe I should start.
 
Funny how most would not eat it , but offer them Chinese made snacks full of melamine and other possibly radio active good stuff and they will chow down like Oprah on a baked ham.
 
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