Let's talk double rifles, from a beginners perspective.
- Thread starter Northern Shooter
- Start date
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Merkels are tough as nails and built German, probably not the sweetest handling double but they fit me perfectly. The Krieghoff is a curious thing with an interesting cocking arrangement I thought I really wanted but am glad I went for the more conventional Merkel instead. Heyms, long we’re talking the new production 88 are great, and a cut above Merkel in finish. Both shoot the same however. With Heym, they have a lot of legacy guns just like Merkel that while good, don’t stack up to the new standards, the company has evolved substantially. Blasers are well made from what I can tell in handling but I never liked their designs and lines, so I never had one and will refrain from guessing. Baikal, I’d avoid, lots of broken ones out there lockwork wise. But for the price of entry, they’re fun, I’ve had two.
My two favourites I kept and used at length. The H&H was lovely in every metric but did nothing the Merkel didn’t. Still I had a good era with her and she was more than free to own. That’s one thing about a smart buy on a good English double, buy it and be willing to hold ten years, and you’ll almost certainly make money. Supply and demand, and the price of the new Royals or Rigby rising bite etc make a high condition used example follow the stock market generally.
If I was looking for a double today, I’d consider a stainless Searcy. Butch offered to make one in .375 at a price I should have jumped on, I’d likely still have that one had I sprung for it. For a production gun, I’d go Merkel again without a second thought.
My two favourites I kept and used at length. The H&H was lovely in every metric but did nothing the Merkel didn’t. Still I had a good era with her and she was more than free to own. That’s one thing about a smart buy on a good English double, buy it and be willing to hold ten years, and you’ll almost certainly make money. Supply and demand, and the price of the new Royals or Rigby rising bite etc make a high condition used example follow the stock market generally.
If I was looking for a double today, I’d consider a stainless Searcy. Butch offered to make one in .375 at a price I should have jumped on, I’d likely still have that one had I sprung for it. For a production gun, I’d go Merkel again without a second thought.
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Merkels are tough as nails and built German, probably not the sweetest handling double but they fit me perfectly. The Krieghoff is a curious thing with an interesting cocking arrangement I thought I really wanted but am glad I went for the more conventional Merkel instead. Heyms, long we’re talking the new production 88 are great, and a cut above Merkel in finish. Both shoot the same however. With Heym, they have a lot of legacy guns just like Merkel that while good, don’t stack up to the new standards, the company has evolved substantially. Blasers are well made from what I can tell in handling but I never liked their designs and lines, so I never had one and will refrain from guessing. Baikal, I’d avoid, lots of broken ones out there lockwork wise. But for the price of entry, they’re fun, I’ve had two.
My two favourites I kept and used at length. The H&H was lovely in every metric but did nothing the Merkel didn’t. Still I had a good era with her and she was more than free to own. That’s one thing about a smart buy on a good English double, buy it and be willing to hold ten years, and you’ll almost certainly make money. Supply and demand, and the price of the new Royals or Rigby rising bite etc make a high condition used example follow the stock market generally.
If I was looking for a double today, I’d consider a stainless Searcy. Butch offered to make one in .375 at a price I should have jumped on, I’d likely still have that one had I sprung for it. For a production gun, I’d go Merkel again without a second thought.
Thanks for your input and those photos. At this point I think I've narrowed it down to Merkel VS Heym and it will ultimately come down to price, availability and cartridge selection. Are these types of firearms something you typically custom order from the manufacture or buy from one of our retailers?
From what I've seen so far Prophet River, CSC, Wolverine Supplies and Elwood Epps are the go-to places for finding doubles in stock.
You might want to speak with Ralf Martini about what to consider when ordering "off the rack". From what I've seen, Merkel and Heym are pretty safe bets (well designed and will probably fit most people). If you have special concerns about fit, best to talk to a stock maker. Ralf designed the Heym Express Rifle stock for Heym. He is very knowledgeable on the subject.
Hmmm double rifles… I would love one but i decided against it for practicality and my style of hunting!! I went with a single shot in two calibers! But still there is something g about a nice double!! Good luck and keep us posted on your decisions and buy!
I'd also look at the used rifles he has for sale, some are competitively priced compared to new ones.
contaucreek
CGN Regular
- Location
- Methropolitan Haliburton Ont
I remember as a young kid I had bought a .577 Nitro Express ctg for my "bullet collection" Long gone, probably sold to go see Star Wars. Probably the beginning of my interest in big, heavy and slow chamberings.
I love this thread. 5 stars.
I love this thread. 5 stars.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
My heavy recommendation would be a .375 H&H or Flanged Mag Heym 88 or 89B or Merkel 140AE, the Germans know what they’re about. The Krieghoff has a following but it’s got some extra quirks, not conventional lock work as it has a decocker. It’s arguably the safest double made to carry chambered.
I found opting for a .375 H&H gave me a gun useful the world over, with easily available ammunition. I made some very long shots with mine on plains game and in BC, with confidence well well outside what would be considered normal double range. You’ll find you use and pack a .375 much more than a .470 or .500, and our our game, it’s frankly more effective anyhow.
I’ve throttled back on hunting to filling the freezer and giving reason to explore, so I don’t see the application for a heavy double in my life at present. Some of the light .30-30 to .300 range guns do raise my eyebrow.
I have zero experience with doubles, never fired one. I have handled a merkel and a Heym 88 and preferred the heym. Less Germanic styling and seemed to have a higher level of finish. They’re quite a bit more expensive so that makes sense
Yeah now that I'm finding some Canadian prices it looks like the Merkel's are going for closer to 10k vs 20k for the Heyms.
In the big bores it is pretty tough to touch a new one under 12k now, more like the 15 range, used that I've seen lately, are 10k+ for the most part. And most of those are base level guns. Sabatti & FAIR are a bit cheaper, even Sabatti went up since they fixed the regulation issues, about 8k US as I recall seeing lately. Just be careful if you see a used Sabatti around, still some of the bad ones around, but, some of them shot OK too.
I spent a year researcjhing what I wanted and what I wanted to do with one, decided I didn't want another big bore, had a #1 in 450-400NE, did quite a bit with it in the time I had it, very versatile cartridge in that platform. Had decided I didn't have a need to go to Africa, so got one more suitable for hunting in Canada. ordered 2011, got late 2012.
Wanted something like a 300H&H, rimmed would have been cool, but, Chapuis, Verney-Carron and Merkel or Krieghoff wouldn't build one.in the rimmed version. Fella at Tradexx essentially talked himself out of a sale on a Chapuis, citing some regulation issues, VC was definitely in the running. Merkel dealers at the time didn't seem cooperative, John @ Wolverine was awesome to deal with though. By the time I got to him, I had decided a K-gun was worth checking into, they regulated as far as 90m, which I wanted, as I'd decided on a 30R Blaser for the chambering. There was ammo and brass avail, dies were custom order.
The other thing I liked on the K-gun was the decocker setup, they've had it long enough to have all the bugs worked out, and I have a Merkel K1, that is opposite to a K-gun in operation, have to take safety off to fire, K-gun is cocked and ready upon closing, if you have it set at decocked, quick push on safety cocks it, it works really well, or if you open it, it closes cocked and ready to shoot, no screwing around with the decocker. Blaser is on safe when opened and closed, same as the Merkel I have. I really liked the wood on Blaser and Chapuis, but, one I wouldn't buy, one I got talked out of. Thought about a Chapuis in a 6.5 or 7mm, maybe even a 30-30 many times since though.
For the K-gun, I wanted the Big 5 stock, that was a wood upgrade too, swingoff scope mount and regulated with scope, tried for a 3 leaf rear sight, won't work with Recknagel swingoff, got 1" and 30mm rings, wanted a peep and got that, has regular irons too, that stuff added 3500.00 to the gun, landed just under 12k, plus the dies, brass, some ammo to start with, and a Swaro 1-6. Bought a Leupold Deltapoint since then and using that at present, good for 200, think I can stretch to 300 yds. Was regulated with RWS 185gr EVO bullet, got 350 of those thru CSC last year, all they could get. I was trying 180's of various flavours, as I thought that was what it was regulated with, that's what I'd asked for, was not working. Looked at what RWS was actually selling, no 180's, 185. Lightbulb came on finally, found some ammo locally, tried it, Voila. That worked. Also added a spacer to lengthen it afterward, originally used shotgun measurements, too short, and I put a red pad on it, much nicer to shoot. 30R isn't a little cartridge, about like a 30-06 AI, and if not held right, lets you know it. K gun has a set trigger on the front on a std Classic action, takes a bit of getting used to as well. I'm happy with how it all turned out, good solid gun, works really well, great to carry and a pleasure to swing and hold on target. I wouldn't have any issues with recommending it to someone else.
I did the bulk of my reading up on Accurate Reloading, they have a section devoted to doubles, and some good people on there, also got good info when asking originally, on the 24HR Campfire. Lot of the same folk from AR post on AH as well.There are some folk on AR that know their stuff. Graeme Wright's books on doubles are worth having around, too.
I spent a year researcjhing what I wanted and what I wanted to do with one, decided I didn't want another big bore, had a #1 in 450-400NE, did quite a bit with it in the time I had it, very versatile cartridge in that platform. Had decided I didn't have a need to go to Africa, so got one more suitable for hunting in Canada. ordered 2011, got late 2012.
Wanted something like a 300H&H, rimmed would have been cool, but, Chapuis, Verney-Carron and Merkel or Krieghoff wouldn't build one.in the rimmed version. Fella at Tradexx essentially talked himself out of a sale on a Chapuis, citing some regulation issues, VC was definitely in the running. Merkel dealers at the time didn't seem cooperative, John @ Wolverine was awesome to deal with though. By the time I got to him, I had decided a K-gun was worth checking into, they regulated as far as 90m, which I wanted, as I'd decided on a 30R Blaser for the chambering. There was ammo and brass avail, dies were custom order.
The other thing I liked on the K-gun was the decocker setup, they've had it long enough to have all the bugs worked out, and I have a Merkel K1, that is opposite to a K-gun in operation, have to take safety off to fire, K-gun is cocked and ready upon closing, if you have it set at decocked, quick push on safety cocks it, it works really well, or if you open it, it closes cocked and ready to shoot, no screwing around with the decocker. Blaser is on safe when opened and closed, same as the Merkel I have. I really liked the wood on Blaser and Chapuis, but, one I wouldn't buy, one I got talked out of. Thought about a Chapuis in a 6.5 or 7mm, maybe even a 30-30 many times since though.
For the K-gun, I wanted the Big 5 stock, that was a wood upgrade too, swingoff scope mount and regulated with scope, tried for a 3 leaf rear sight, won't work with Recknagel swingoff, got 1" and 30mm rings, wanted a peep and got that, has regular irons too, that stuff added 3500.00 to the gun, landed just under 12k, plus the dies, brass, some ammo to start with, and a Swaro 1-6. Bought a Leupold Deltapoint since then and using that at present, good for 200, think I can stretch to 300 yds. Was regulated with RWS 185gr EVO bullet, got 350 of those thru CSC last year, all they could get. I was trying 180's of various flavours, as I thought that was what it was regulated with, that's what I'd asked for, was not working. Looked at what RWS was actually selling, no 180's, 185. Lightbulb came on finally, found some ammo locally, tried it, Voila. That worked. Also added a spacer to lengthen it afterward, originally used shotgun measurements, too short, and I put a red pad on it, much nicer to shoot. 30R isn't a little cartridge, about like a 30-06 AI, and if not held right, lets you know it. K gun has a set trigger on the front on a std Classic action, takes a bit of getting used to as well. I'm happy with how it all turned out, good solid gun, works really well, great to carry and a pleasure to swing and hold on target. I wouldn't have any issues with recommending it to someone else.
I did the bulk of my reading up on Accurate Reloading, they have a section devoted to doubles, and some good people on there, also got good info when asking originally, on the 24HR Campfire. Lot of the same folk from AR post on AH as well.There are some folk on AR that know their stuff. Graeme Wright's books on doubles are worth having around, too.
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sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If the OP wants to dip his (or her) toes, for not all that much $$... there are a number of combination rifles floating around...
If you're looking for some double-rifle reading and have a Kindle... this one is free on Amazon
If you're looking for some double-rifle reading and have a Kindle... this one is free on Amazon
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
With a double, do not forget to consider fit in your decision making. These guns are made for work up close which usually happens quickly. For something like that, you want it to fit like a fine wingshooting shotgun.
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
There are many double rifles on guns international with several <$15,000 and a few <$10,000
I saw a nice early under lever double hammer made by Rigby at the Chilliwack gun show in 500-450 in good shape and in the original case for 5k. I believe Damascus barrels though so BP only
Man I wanted it bad. Actually if I see it in Kamloops I may have to buy it. I need a Rigby and an old one would be awesome.
Edit- I don't think this is the actual gun from Chilliwack show but it looks identical the same case and chambering too.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...fle-owned-by-the-duke-of-su-1388-c-37d4a7cb7f
Man I wanted it bad. Actually if I see it in Kamloops I may have to buy it. I need a Rigby and an old one would be awesome.
Edit- I don't think this is the actual gun from Chilliwack show but it looks identical the same case and chambering too.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...fle-owned-by-the-duke-of-su-1388-c-37d4a7cb7f
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Now I'm not advocating for not getting a double(because they are sure amazing)
But you can pick up a big bore bolt action from a trusted and beautiful maker for a lot less cash.
And for everything except a stopping rifle, they are probably a better choice.
Not that getting a double is a bad choice, and sometimes it doesn't matter why a guy just wants one.
But after having a few now, I have digressed to having bolt guns, with nice wood, beautiful bluing and fantastic open sites.
You can scope them easily, and site them in for different distances, where a double is not nearly as easy to do that with.
Now don't take this post as talking you out of a double, because they are sure cool, but before you invest a significant amount of cash, be sure of it.
But you can pick up a big bore bolt action from a trusted and beautiful maker for a lot less cash.
And for everything except a stopping rifle, they are probably a better choice.
Not that getting a double is a bad choice, and sometimes it doesn't matter why a guy just wants one.
But after having a few now, I have digressed to having bolt guns, with nice wood, beautiful bluing and fantastic open sites.
You can scope them easily, and site them in for different distances, where a double is not nearly as easy to do that with.
Now don't take this post as talking you out of a double, because they are sure cool, but before you invest a significant amount of cash, be sure of it.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Great post with good information 209Jones!
If I may add another point, one more advantage of a double rifle for a traveling hunter is the takedown feature. A double stored in a good take down hard case is half the length and twice as handy to pack through airports and in the trunk of vehicles. Another good reason to own one.
If I may add another point, one more advantage of a double rifle for a traveling hunter is the takedown feature. A double stored in a good take down hard case is half the length and twice as handy to pack through airports and in the trunk of vehicles. Another good reason to own one.
Well this thread is going to cost me a small fortune. I'm actively searching out the owner of the Rigby double hammer rifle that was at the Chilliwack show to buy.
And I just got off the phone with a friend and he's sending me that project Baikal 45-70 sxs. He CCH'ed it and got it restocked but the old owner shortened the barrels so that removed the wheel to regulate it. So I have to figured that out. Also I plan to replace the ribs with solid ribs not sheet metal ones
And I just got off the phone with a friend and he's sending me that project Baikal 45-70 sxs. He CCH'ed it and got it restocked but the old owner shortened the barrels so that removed the wheel to regulate it. So I have to figured that out. Also I plan to replace the ribs with solid ribs not sheet metal ones
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