Let's talk double rifles, from a beginners perspective.

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Northern Shooter

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Ever since I've started to read books on African hunting, and the classic safaris that famous writers undertook in the 20th century; I have become more and more enamored with double rifles. These rifles seem incredibly cool, very nostalgic and most of all very old world, very rich.

Maybe I should have substituted "beginner" for "poor" or "working man" as it appears that most of these double rifles are produced from bespoke British manufactures and come with 5-6 figure price tags.

So let's start from the beginning.

1. What are the common brands that are producing double rifles today? Approximate price ranges?
2. Why aren't any of the more mainstream large production outfits (i.e. Winchester, Ruger, Browning etc.) making double rifles?
3. How do you gage the quality of a double rifle? I've read it's all in the "regulation".
4. Is there such thing as an "affordable" double rifle that isn't junk? $2000? $5000? $10,000? Who makes the cheapest model?
5. Do you own any yourself? Have you hunted with it? North America? Africa?

I'm making this a bucket list item to one day obtain a double rifle and walk the same footsteps through the dark continent as some of the best writers have before us.
 
Chapuis and Blaser made beautiful double rifles within the $10,000 price range. Both Chapuis and Blaser have self regulated barrels, I had one in the S2 Blaser chambered in the 9.3x74R. Merkel's could be located around that $10,000 mark, however, not as elegant as the two previous rifles mentioned.
 
I'm interested in reading this thread. I tried to get into doubles by building one but it never happened.

I got a Merkel sxs and bought two 43 Mauser barrels and turned them to slide in the shotgun tubes. The Knox form looked like a 12 gauge shell with the rim.

The plan was to silver solder the chamber area and use set screws or wedges in the ends of the barrels to regulate them.

But I used up a couple hundred rounds of 12g I had and fell in love with the shotgun. So 3 years later it's still a sxs 12g...

One day I'll get one. Actually Oskar Kob has one for me if I want a project. It's a Baikal MP-221 .45-70.

I going to call him tonight lol
 
Common chamberings are rimed cases from the turn of the century.

The cheapest is the a Baikal doubles. This is sold and not a sxs but an over under 3006 for less then a grand https://greatnorthgunco.ca/product/baikal-mp-251-double-rifle-in-30-06/

Sometimes they are chambered in 2 different rounds but not that often. That's more so a combination rifle or a drilling (3 barrels)

They arnt common or really needed in North America so non of the makers make them. Wrong market.

Also they are hard to build. They need to shoot the same point of aim.

And now a days they are a status thing and cost a lot and you are paying for the name and quality more so then a gun to shoot stuff.
 
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The Baikal MP-221 double would be about the cheapest double a fella could get. And it is cheap, but cheerful! Barrels do regulate, and they can be fairly accurate for what they are. Which comes to the whole point of a double rifle in the first place. They are a close range stopping rifle. Bolt gun accuracy should not be expected... not to say that it can't be attained, as the price goes up, the groups probably get smaller.
Not sure if they are about status, as much as they are as a specialized tool for a specific job. As anything specialized, they are expensive. There are other tools to do the job for less, but not in the same way, so there is that.
If you have a double rifle itch to scratch, but don't have the scratch for the itch, then get the Baikal. It will have minute of milk jug performance at 50 yards, and still give you that "being there" feeling!

Popular chamberings are mostly the older Nitro cartridges, mid and big bore classics and standards.

Then there are Valmets, and a whole bunch of over unders as well... more accurate, come in combo's, take scopes, can be regulated. A different can of worms again.

R.
 
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So so far it looks like we have options from:

1. Baikal - cheapest, $1,000
2. Chapuis - $10,000 (ish)
3. Blaser - $10,000 (ish)
4. Merkel - $10,000 (ish)

From there does it jump way up to the Holland and Hollands, Rigbys, and Westly Richards of the world or is there much in-between?
 
https://ellwoodepps.com/hunting/fir...from_date&no_cache=true&p=1&firearm_type=1569

https://ellwoodepps.com/hunting/fir...rue&firearm_type=1569&firearm_action=1585&p=1

A few to choose from here^^^.
For North America I think the most popular calibers are 9.3x74r, maybe 45-70, 450/400 would be a good choice! If you go to Africa and plan on some dangerous game then sky is the limit!
I think personally if I would go that route(double rifle) it would be a side by side, in a classic African caliber of a good renowned company…. But that would be pricey!! Maybe the used market, but I doubt it would be less than $20k!
Have a look here too! https://martinigunmakers.com/for-sale/
 
DGY said:
https://ellwoodepps.com/hunting/fir...from_date&no_cache=true&p=1&firearm_type=1569

https://ellwoodepps.com/hunting/fir...rue&firearm_type=1569&firearm_action=1585&p=1

A few to choose from here^^^.
For North America I think the most popular calibers are 9.3x74r, maybe 45-70, 450/400 would be a good choice! If you go to Africa and plan on some dangerous game then sky is the limit!
I think personally if I would go that route(double rifle) it would be a side by side, in a classic African caliber of a good renowned company…. But that would be pricey!! Maybe the used market, but I doubt it would be less than $20k!
Have a look here too! https://martinigunmakers.com/for-sale/
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A Rigby, John & Co for less than $10K? I always thought those were approaching 100k.

I'm guessing this is a very old example.
 
Northern Shooter said:
So so far it looks like we have options from:

1. Baikal - cheapest, $1,000
2. Chapuis - $10,000 (ish)
3. Blaser - $10,000 (ish)
4. Merkel - $10,000 (ish)

From there does it jump way up to the Holland and Hollands, Rigbys, and Westly Richards of the world or is there much in-between?
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Buy a Heym 88 or a Merkel would be my recommendation. Well-built, excellent performers.
I would avoid Verney Carron. Had one, took it to Africa, it failed to close on the sighting-in range. A few minutes before we were to start our DG hunt. Skinny (punishing) butt stock, trigger guard hammered my fingers and as for the cheek rest, "it looks like they knew they should put one on. They just didn't know where to put it." (Comments by a well-known stock designer). The cheek rest pounded my cheek every shot. (The failure turned out to be a ejector retaining screw that had backed out a few thou - enough to prevent the action from closing. NOT what you want when you're hunting Cape Buffalo. )
Save your $$ and buy a Heym.
As for caliber, the VC I had was in 450-400 3-inch Nitro Express. I replaced it with a Heym Express Rifle in 404 Jeffrey. That was 200 fps faster than the 450-400 and was a delightful rifle. The Heym Express Rifle is not a double, but it's a delight to hunt with (and shoot) due to its well-designed stock.
As for availability, check Prophet River, Epps and Ralf Martini Gunmakers.
 
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I totally agree, they are very cool rifles. I don't own one and have never had the opportunity to shoot one.

In terms of cartridge selection for a double, I suggest listening to the episodes of the The Big Game Hunting Podcast with Kevin Robertson as the guest (there are a few such episodes and they are all very informative). Robertson is a veterinarian and was a PH in Zimbabwe, and combined the two into serious expertise on terminal performance, and he wrote the standard book on shot placement for Africa hunting, The Perfect Shot. On one of the podcasts, Robertson argues that a cartridge somewhat smaller than .470 NE would be a better choice for a client hunter going for elephant. I think he recommended .450/400 as having better penetration and being easier to shoot, and that .470 was better suited for a PH's stopping rifle than for a client's hunting rifle. I'm just recommending the views of a respected expert on this, if anyone disagrees don't take it up with me, take it up with Kevin Robertson.

I don't claim to be an expert, but what I've read and heard is that for a client hunter in Africa, a bolt action in one of the 375s or 416s is generally a better choice for dangerous game. I hunted in Namibia 2 years ago and the PH there said that most clients with a double don't shoot it well and it's more of a liability. I think this is a pretty common view. Hey, if you can afford a double and the cost of ammo to learn to shoot it well, and you really want to, go for it. I'm just pointing out that for most of us, where a hunting trip to Africa is something we're lucky to do once if at all, if the goal is to hunt Africa, you're probably better off with a bolt action. For $10k you can pretty much do an affordable plains game hunt with airfare in South Africa, and just use your deer rifle.

I don't want to be negative and I don't mean to say "you shouldn't get one", I'm just offering a view of what seems to generally work best for most client hunters. As with all of these things in shooting and hunting, personal preference is a huge part of it. A few years ago I lusted after a double rifle as well, but I've come to appreciate doubles more as a tool for a PH to use on a DG hunt, for back up shots at close range. If you're really and truly bitten by the double bug, that's fine and I hope you enjoy the journey.
 
Bittereinder said:
I totally agree, they are very cool rifles. I don't own one and have never had the opportunity to shoot one.

In terms of cartridge selection for a double, I suggest listening to the episodes of the The Big Game Hunting Podcast with Kevin Robertson as the guest (there are a few such episodes and they are all very informative). Robertson is a veterinarian and was a PH in Zimbabwe, and combined the two into serious expertise on terminal performance, and he wrote the standard book on shot placement for Africa hunting, The Perfect Shot. On one of the podcasts, Robertson argues that a cartridge somewhat smaller than .470 NE would be a better choice for a client hunter going for elephant. I think he recommended .450/400 as having better penetration and being easier to shoot, and that .470 was better suited for a PH's stopping rifle than for a client's hunting rifle.

I don't claim to be an expert, but what I've read and heard is that for a client hunter in Africa, a bolt action in one of the 375s or 416s is generally a better choice for dangerous game. I hunted in Namibia 2 years ago and the PH there said that most clients with a double don't shoot it well and it's more of a liability. I think this is a pretty common view. Hey, if you can afford a double and the cost of ammo to learn to shoot it well, and you really want to, go for it. I'm just pointing out that for most of us, where a hunting trip to Africa is something we're lucky to do once if at all, if the goal is to hunt Africa, you're probably better off with a bolt action. For $10k you can pretty much do an affordable plains game hunt with airfare in South Africa, and just use your deer rifle.

I don't want to be negative and I don't mean to say "you shouldn't get one", I'm just offering a view of what seems to generally work best for most client hunters. As with all of these things in shooting and hunting, personal preference is a huge part of it. A few years ago I lusted after a double rifle as well, but I've come to appreciate doubles more as a tool for a PH to use on a DG hunt, for back up shots at close range. If you're really and truly bitten by the double bug, that's fine and I hope you enjoy the journey.
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Listening to that podcast, particularly the episodes with Kevin Robertson is actually what got my started down this path last year and led me to buying my 375H&H. Now i'm interested in something bigger and the double rifles have caught my attention.

I'm considering buying my next bolt gun in a .416 caliber so would like to go atleast one step up again for the double rifle choice, either a .458, 450 etc. Having never fired any of these more exotic cartridges I have no idea what the recoil impulse will be, however I know that most double rifles are 10lbs+ which will help mitigate that ....somewhat.
 
Northern Shooter said:
Listening to that podcast, particularly the episodes with Kevin Robertson is actually what got my started down this path last year and led me to buying my 375H&H. Now i'm interested in something bigger and the double rifles have caught my attention.

I'm considering buying my next bolt gun in a .416 caliber so would like to go atleast one step up again for the double rifle choice, either a .458, 450 etc. Having never fired any of these more exotic cartridges I have no idea what the recoil impulse will be, however I know that most double rifles are 10lbs+ which will help mitigate that ....somewhat.
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Ok, well in that case the others on here who have actually shot them can help you. Best of luck in finding the perfect rifle for you.
 
Northern Shooter said:
Oh yeah?

I was considering one of those vs Blaser and Heym based on price.

Best to avoid Merkel?
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http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=doubles&Number=118969&page=0&fpart=all
The blaser doesn’t get much love either not because of doubling, aesthetic? Rubber inserts used to regulate barrels. Blasers combo guns are well regarded. Idk all are outside my price range and I’ll never get to Africa.

You can find some nice sauer 3000 drilling’s for reasonable prices in Canada and they be more useful. The valmet 412 is a good gun not sure if the op wants an o/u or sxs
 
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