Leupold CQ/T
- Thread starter steyr_m
- Start date
P of PDent said:
Banned because they suck, actually its well made but it only 28mm if I remember right so small FOV. There's another newer lupy that's a 1-5, poor brother of the S&B that's pretty good bang for the buck ($1200 I think)and has good reviews. Don't own one so i can't comment on it.
Leupy just cant get the low pwer scopes to work well
CQ/T -- McDonalds straw with no lit reticle (sorry no real lit reticle the ghey yellow sucks)
1.5-5 -- missed the boat -- no daylight viewable reticle and the 1.5 is a waste since its not low enough to use both eyes open CQB shooting (and no real lit reticle)
the 2.5-8 and 3-9 are much better scopes
CQ/T -- McDonalds straw with no lit reticle (sorry no real lit reticle the ghey yellow sucks)
1.5-5 -- missed the boat -- no daylight viewable reticle and the 1.5 is a waste since its not low enough to use both eyes open CQB shooting (and no real lit reticle)
the 2.5-8 and 3-9 are much better scopes
The Elcan Specter is a piece of junk for anything but a range queen,then again avoid flipping the magnification as you will lose the zero,and there is that crappy Elcan mount to deal with, pot metal throw levers, and is not a hard mount. Even the gen III base suffers from the same faults as the earlier Elcans,someday they will get it right but the DR is not it.
The S&B Short dot is about the best on the market,bar none at this time. I'm confident Kevin would agree.
The S&B Short dot is about the best on the market,bar none at this time. I'm confident Kevin would agree.
Roger Reaper,
NightForces 1-4x Military line is nice too-- but they still dont sell them to civilians or LE.
On the Spcetre DR
Nice concept poor execution -- both USSOC and CANSOF (or whatever were calling today) have experimented with it.
The zero will not hold in several areas
1) Mount - ARMS levers are not the best method for a sight (go Larue )
2) Magnification lever --- the system starts to become sloppy and the zero is no longer the same at 1 and at 4x
The 7th Gen of this sight now has a Dr Optic on the top middle and two iron sights (one on each side of the Dr) so the operator no longer has to chnage the sight to 1x (which is basically like adding a Dr Optic to a M145 Elcan anyway if you think of it...)
[ The M145 is the US one with the battery lit reticle - a crosshair reticle with a BDC scribed on the reticle]
Its a nice sight -- and I got one to fool around with -- but I wont be taking it anyway I might have to use it for real...
ARMS mounts -- the cam to the receiver using a MIM (yuck) throw lever (MIM is Metal Injected Moulding - sorta like the Die Cast cars of way back - its a cheap and easy method -- but does leaves bubbles and potential weaknesses in the structure) -- there is also a teflon cover "no marr" pad that the MIM Lever cams against - to push the mount down and in - however since the upper is HCA III (Type 3 Hard Coat Annodized) its a bit rough and much harder than the Teflon covered light steel tab) -- when the Tab wear down the pressure against the side of the rail is lessened. The result is at first a change in zero -- and latter a sloppy fit and no real zero.
Units have been using pieces of aluminum can to shim the tab so it is firm against the reciever.
Also #### Swan (the owner of ARMS) is a Nazi - he worships the 3rd SS and has a ####load of uniforms etc -- to the point of being obsessed. So I boycott ARMS products on that basis as well as they are inferior to newer systems (specifically the Larue Tactical throw lever -- which is polished steel and adjustable)
On the Spectre DR -- when the magnification lever is moved - it rotates a prism that couples the X4 magnifier. When the unit is subject to adverse condictions and a lot of recoil the prism comes "off kilter"and the alignment is not on -- so the zero from non maginifed to magnified is not the same.
This is then where the DR Optic Mini Red Dot was added to the top of the sight -- so one could reduce the amount of times the mag lever is flipped.
I have no doubt that the sight will eventually be ready for the big time -- but I have some great concerns that it could be issued to early.
Add it it suffers from the same external adjustment mount issues of the normal ELCAN series --- any impacts are trasnfered to the windage and elevation screws -- which also due to beign exposed will accumulate the "poo" dust which acts like sandpaper and wears down the intially fine and tight adjustments - to a sloppy system that will not hold a zero.
This may be acceptable to two sorts of unit -- the ones that due to budgeting leniency will use the scope for a short deployment and get a new one upon return. Or units that never really use their sights - and use them as a drill ornament.
Maybe in a few more generations...
NightForces 1-4x Military line is nice too-- but they still dont sell them to civilians or LE.
On the Spcetre DR
Nice concept poor execution -- both USSOC and CANSOF (or whatever were calling today) have experimented with it.
The zero will not hold in several areas
1) Mount - ARMS levers are not the best method for a sight (go Larue )
2) Magnification lever --- the system starts to become sloppy and the zero is no longer the same at 1 and at 4x
The 7th Gen of this sight now has a Dr Optic on the top middle and two iron sights (one on each side of the Dr) so the operator no longer has to chnage the sight to 1x (which is basically like adding a Dr Optic to a M145 Elcan anyway if you think of it...)
[ The M145 is the US one with the battery lit reticle - a crosshair reticle with a BDC scribed on the reticle]
Its a nice sight -- and I got one to fool around with -- but I wont be taking it anyway I might have to use it for real...
ARMS mounts -- the cam to the receiver using a MIM (yuck) throw lever (MIM is Metal Injected Moulding - sorta like the Die Cast cars of way back - its a cheap and easy method -- but does leaves bubbles and potential weaknesses in the structure) -- there is also a teflon cover "no marr" pad that the MIM Lever cams against - to push the mount down and in - however since the upper is HCA III (Type 3 Hard Coat Annodized) its a bit rough and much harder than the Teflon covered light steel tab) -- when the Tab wear down the pressure against the side of the rail is lessened. The result is at first a change in zero -- and latter a sloppy fit and no real zero.
Units have been using pieces of aluminum can to shim the tab so it is firm against the reciever.
Also #### Swan (the owner of ARMS) is a Nazi - he worships the 3rd SS and has a ####load of uniforms etc -- to the point of being obsessed. So I boycott ARMS products on that basis as well as they are inferior to newer systems (specifically the Larue Tactical throw lever -- which is polished steel and adjustable)
On the Spectre DR -- when the magnification lever is moved - it rotates a prism that couples the X4 magnifier. When the unit is subject to adverse condictions and a lot of recoil the prism comes "off kilter"and the alignment is not on -- so the zero from non maginifed to magnified is not the same.
This is then where the DR Optic Mini Red Dot was added to the top of the sight -- so one could reduce the amount of times the mag lever is flipped.
I have no doubt that the sight will eventually be ready for the big time -- but I have some great concerns that it could be issued to early.
Add it it suffers from the same external adjustment mount issues of the normal ELCAN series --- any impacts are trasnfered to the windage and elevation screws -- which also due to beign exposed will accumulate the "poo" dust which acts like sandpaper and wears down the intially fine and tight adjustments - to a sloppy system that will not hold a zero.
This may be acceptable to two sorts of unit -- the ones that due to budgeting leniency will use the scope for a short deployment and get a new one upon return. Or units that never really use their sights - and use them as a drill ornament.
Maybe in a few more generations...
I use the Leupold MK 4 1.5 - 5 X 28mm M/RT with the SPR Illum. reticle.
I like the scope and have no problems using it with both eyes open at any power (I always shoot with both eyes open).
I would go with the S&B Short Dot if I had the cash (but don't after buying a S&B 5-25 X 56 PM II......
).
S&B makes AWESOME optics.
SKBY.
I like the scope and have no problems using it with both eyes open at any power (I always shoot with both eyes open).
I would go with the S&B Short Dot if I had the cash (but don't after buying a S&B 5-25 X 56 PM II......
).S&B makes AWESOME optics.
SKBY.
CQT in my opinion missed the boat completely as the boat left the thing on shore when they cast off...the thing is way to big - The new prismatic should be hitting stores soon and I am curious to see what it is like but then again Lepold hasn't made a good daytime lit-reticle yet (as Kev has pointed out). I do like the idea of the etched glass though.
Boltgun
Boltgun
I remain pleased with my CQT, but I'm not using it for anything other than range time and 3 gun matches, nothing Like Kevin or anybody else in that AO. I do agree that there are better optics out there but for the price at the time this was quite a good deal. I now also have a Leupold Mk4 1.5 to 5 x 28 probably like SKBY's and I anticipate much good use out of it, either on a M305 or my AR 20' barrel. I'd love a short dot(looked them up after hearing about them hear) but just can't afford it right know. Big + for the night forces thought I have two, 3.5-15x50 and 2.5x10x40 Lightforce. I guess I'll just save my pennies and maybe find a used short dot one day.
Edit to add: yeah what KodiakG said. I deffinatly respect their opinion b/c for them its real and in that case money is no object, because they depend on it 24/7. Not like us who can call it a day and RTB(house down the street) with everything cased up and be safe.
Edit to add: yeah what KodiakG said. I deffinatly respect their opinion b/c for them its real and in that case money is no object, because they depend on it 24/7. Not like us who can call it a day and RTB(house down the street) with everything cased up and be safe.
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Just like Sosa, I find the CQT meets the needs for my rifle and competition as well. And again, my life does not ride on the optic, much like Kevin or others in that line of work. Don't get me wrong, I respect their opinion because, as he and others have pointed out, the gear is integral to their job day in, day out.
Cheers all
Cheers all
