Lever action or bolt action for beginner hunter

CoverFire

CoverFire

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I'm looking at getting a new rifle.
Mainly for deer ranges 50-200yrds

I've seen many Henry's 30-30 , 357, 44mag and marlin 336 (30-30) with scope setups and I've seen way more bolt action entry level rifles such as tikka t3x, mossberg patriot / map, and ruger american, all from 30-06 to 300 winmag...... I used to own a rem 700 300winmag but it had far to much recoil and overpower for the range I wanted to shoot at 50-200yrd so I sold it after 2 range days and 30 rnds later......

Which is more popular and appropriate for getting into the sport for say $1300 ALL IN, gun, Mount,rings, adequate scope and overall ammo cost ?
Why would i use a 357 or 44 mag when the other rounds are more popular (30/30-30-06,.308, 300wsm, .243, 270)
Im between a lever 30/30 and a tikka t3x in...... let the knowledge rain down..
 
270 gets you Coyotes hunting in Southern Ontario and any big game elsewhere.. 243 will do you coyote and deer.
Look at a 243 BLR or Henry Long-ranger in that caliber.
 
I think bolt or lever work great, lever tent to be handier/easier to carry and are usually shorter! I really like the Browning BLR in the short actions like 308 243 etc my first choice would a BLR in 308 loaded with 150-165 grain bullets! For bolt action I like the Ruger 77 RSI in 308 as well they are compact and easy to carry around! New they would both bust your budget but you should be able to find a used one fairly easily!
Winchester made a 307 at some point but not as easy to come by!
 
Isn't. 270 or .243 a bit small for large game?? Isn't that like using a 6.5 creemore for a moose??? Yes it is insanely fast but does it really deliver same energy compared to a 30-06 or 300 winmag
 
CoverFire said:
Isn't. 270 or .243 a bit small for large game?? Isn't that like using a 6.5 creemore for a moose??? Yes it is insanely fast but does it really deliver same energy compared to a 30-06 or 300 winmag
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243 for deer..
270 will take anything in Ontario and 6.5 will take moose Richard Mann took his last year in NFLD with a 6.5 ..both will.do what 30 06 does or 308.
and if 3030 and 303 are responsible for many deer and moose in the previous century.. the 270 or 6.5 are well above those 2
 
I like to keep new hunters away from hammers until they have a bit more experience. Cold hands and hammers are not a good mix..
 
For nostalgia sakes a lever 3030 is hard to beat.

But for a beginner beginner I've got to second Captonion. A bolt is easier and safer. Not only with the hammer, but a tube mag can be an extra safety concern. And just the basics. Easier to clean, straight forward to scope, etc.
 
From a safety aspect, a lever with tube mag can be an issue. As with most, the rounds have to be cycled through the action to remove them. Some, like the BLR and Savage 99C, have removeable magazines. A good quality bolt action will last a lifetime and can be had for well within your budget. As has been said, 243, 270, 308 etc are all proven performers and will take most game animals in Ontario.
 
CoverFire said:
Isn't. 270 or .243 a bit small for large game?? Isn't that like using a 6.5 creemore for a moose??? Yes it is insanely fast but does it really deliver same energy compared to a 30-06 or 300 winmag
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You were looking for a 200 yard deer rifle, but now you are alluding to a general purpose big game rifle, which is not at all the same thing. A .270 is a more than adequate moose cartridge, and the Swedes have been shooting moose with a 6.5X55 for 100 years. As has been said, in Southern Ontario you benefit from using a rifle chambered for cartridges that are .270 caliber or smaller. A .243 is a dandy deer, wolf, black bear cartridge when loaded with the appropriate bullet, and while I consider it light for moose, it won't do em any good either. I'd just be sure I waited for the right shot and I'd keep the range short. Lots of old guys have dumped their hard kicking hunting rifles in favor of .243s, so maybe they know something the rest of have yet to learn. When comparing 6 pound rifles, a .243 is much easier to shoot well than a .30/06.

As to the rifles themselves, nothing carries as easily in the field as a traditional lever action carbine. Tube magazines though are not conducive to the use of pointed bullets, with the exception of Hornady's Leverevolution line of ammo. You can just load the gun as a two-shooter, one in the magazine and one in the chamber, but with some, the length of the bullet is critical to feeding. Perhaps you can find a Savage 99 that's in good shape and have a lever action that thrives on ammo with pointed bullets. A lever action that takes full length cartridges with pointed bullet is a M-95 Winchester, but it and it's clones tend to be expensive. My preference is bolt actions, although I'm not a fan of the race to the bottom guns that I find really hard to like, topping that list is the Savage Axis. I think there is much benefit in purchasing a good quality used rifle than there is to spending hard earned money on junk just because its new. Used rifles typically go for 60% of the cost of new when we're considering models that are in current production. If you can find something you like that's been lightly used, that saves you 40% off the new price, its worth considering. Go through the pages of used sporting rifles on the Tradex site and see if there's anything there that jumps out at you.

For ranges within 250 yards, a variable low powered scope like a 1.5-5X has you covered as do any scopes of similar magnification, 1.75-6X, 2-7X, 2.5-8X etc, and a fixed power scope of 4X or under will do as well. I have a preference for Leupold scopes mainly due to their excellent Canadian warranty. But scope prices have gone up along with everything else, so considering a used scope is another way of keeping within a tight budget. Scope mounts can be either expensive or inexpensive, the key is will it do what you need it to do. The height of the ring needs to allow for the diameter of the scope's objective bell, the clearance of the bolt handle, and the height of the stock's comb so your eye is aligned with the center of the scope. If you want to spend big money on mounts, Near is very good, and Canadian made. If you want something more modestly priced, Weaver mounts are the cheapest I'd consider, that will still get the job done in a satisfactory manner. In between there is much to choose from like Talley, EGW, Warne, Leupold, etc.
 
The rationale that bolt guns are " safer " than levers is wired.
Exactly how long do you have to be a hunter to graduate from a bolt gun to a lever.
Many bolt guns have blind magazines and need to be cycled to empty.. and many tube fed levers have manual safeties..
It's really silly to assume a lever is a more complicated firearm to run or less safe.
I am sure the OP has enough sense to familairize himself with the manual of arms before walking into the bush hammer back one in the chamber on a frosty January morning looking for Bambi.
 
Bolt guns and levers with blind mags or tubes DO NOT need to be fully cycled through the action. Just move the bolt forward far enough to pop the round loose from the magazine, and dump it in your hand. It's simple, and you won't be screwing around looking for rounds on the ground.

I started out with a standard 94 Winchester in 30-30. It's not complicated, and is sure as hell isn't unsafe.

Op you're going to have to decide on that action type for yourself, as all of us have our preferences. Eventually, you may decide that having ALL of them is the best route. Many of us have!

BTW don't forget to look at pump guns! If you're a shotgunner, pump guns are a natural.
 
I would recommend a bolt action rifle for new hunters. Easier to load/ unload plus can visually see the chamber . The hammer/ safety on levers could be an issue to new shooters .Don't need anything fancy, even a sportized .303 British will be sufficient.
 
This over obsessing about safety has become unproductive. There is no way to make a gun absolutely safe and still have it function in a useful manner. Anyone, who after proper instruction, cannot manage to lower the hammer safely with the older style, traditional, lever action rifle, should probably consider some other endeavor. He lacks the manual dexterity required to be a shooter. The silly cross-bolt safety added to these guns was completely unnecessary. It doesn't make the gun safer, or easier to use, and in some cases, could make the gun less safe.

When I was a youngster, a Winchester or Marlin carbine was considered safer than other action types because of the visible hammer; it was easy to see if the hammer was cocked by both the hunter and his companions. Bad or dangerous behavior observed by others could be quickly corrected. Can you see which way a cross bolt safety is positioned if you have a novice under your supervision? If a novice hunter is encouraged to carry a new model lever action with the hammer back and the cross bolt safety engaged, the advantage of seeing from a distance what condition the rifle in, has been lost. Frankly I'd remove the cross bolt safety and fill the holes.

From the point of view of the novice, its much easier to forget to engage a cross-bolt safety, or forget which way is safe and which way is fire, than it is to simply lower an exposed hammer to half ####. If the finger is off the trigger once the hammer is released, the gun cannot fire, the hammer will always be caught by the half #### notch. Saying that these guns are unsafe is like saying a double action only revolver is safer than a single action, that's just dumb. The hammer is easily lowered to the safe position, regardless of temperature, because there are larger contact surfaces, compared to a cross bolt or the sliding safety that's common on many bolt guns. If more surface area is desirable a hammer shoe can be added to the spur. Inexpensive break action single shot shotguns from Winchester, Cooey, Remington, H&R, Ithica, and others were likewise considered safe because of the exposed hammer, not in spite of it. The difference with these guns is that they used a rebounding hammer rather than a half #### notch, but both are safe to carry, and the condition of the guns was easy to see.

If a novice who carries a lever gun or hammer style shotgun pointed it in a safe direction, and the gun fires when he attempts to lower the hammer, it doesn't really matter. No one will be hurt, the gun is pointed in a safe direction. But it will be an important lesson that stays with him; that is positive reinforcement. A hunter who sweeps others with his muzzle is unsafe all the time, and it doesn't matter how much experience he has, what type of action it is, or what kind of safety it has. A novice hunter, particularly a youngster, who is unsure whether his gun is on safe or not, might get excited and do the wrong thing in the field. That makes these newer lever guns less safe.
 
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What sort of terrain are you going to be hunting in?
If youre going to be doing a lot of hunting in the bush i would go with the 30/30, but if youre going to be hunting open areas/fields i would go with the Tikka.
 
Boomer said:
This over obsessing about safety has become unproductive. There is no way to make a gun absolutely safe and still have it function in a useful manner. Anyone, who after proper instruction, cannot manage to lower the hammer safely with the older style, traditional, lever action rifle, should probably consider some other endeavor. He lacks the manual dexterity required to be a shooter. The silly cross-bolt safety added to these guns was completely unnecessary. It doesn't make the gun safer, or easier to use, and in some cases, could make the gun less safe.

When I was a youngster, a Winchester or Marlin carbine was considered safer than other action types because of the visible hammer; it was easy to see if the hammer was cocked by both the hunter and his companions. Bad or dangerous behavior observed by others could be quickly corrected. Can you see which way a cross bolt safety is positioned if you have a novice under your supervision? If a novice hunter is encouraged to carry a new model lever action with the hammer back and the cross bolt safety engaged, the advantage of seeing from a distance what condition the rifle in, has been lost. Frankly I'd remove the cross bolt safety and fill the holes.

From the point of view of the novice, its much easier to forget to engage a cross-bolt safety, or forget which way is safe and which way is fire, than it is to simply lower an exposed hammer to half ####. If the finger is off the trigger once the hammer is released, the gun cannot fire, the hammer will always be caught by the half #### notch. Saying that these guns are unsafe is like saying a double action only revolver is safer than a single action, that's just dumb. The hammer is easily lowered to the safe position, regardless of temperature, because there are larger contact surfaces, compared to a cross bolt or the sliding safety that's common on many bolt guns. If more surface area is desirable a hammer shoe can be added to the spur. Inexpensive break action single shot shotguns from Winchester, Cooey, Remington, H&R, Ithica, and others were likewise considered safe because of the exposed hammer, not in spite of it. The difference with these guns is that they used a rebounding hammer rather than a half #### notch, but both are safe to carry, and the condition of the guns was easy to see.

If a novice who carries a lever gun or hammer style shotgun pointed it in a safe direction, and the gun fires when he attempts to lower the hammer, it doesn't really matter. No one will be hurt, the gun is pointed in a safe direction. But it will be an important lesson that stays with him; that is positive reinforcement. A hunter who sweeps others with his muzzle is unsafe all the time, and it doesn't matter how much experience he has, what type of action it is, or what kind of safety it has. A novice hunter, particularly a youngster, who is unsure whether his gun is on safe or not, might get excited and do the wrong thing in the field. That makes these newer lever guns less safe.
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I 100% agree with all of this!! Practice practice practice, safety measures, dry firing, cocking de-cocking, loading unloading, one could even make some dummies ammo just for that(well labeled of cours)! I think the only type of rifle/action I wouldn’t be comfortable putting in the hand of a new hunter/shooter is a semi-auto! All the rest should be good to go!!
 
I’m not up on SW Ontario hunting regs, but have gathered from other reply’s that you can’t hunt coyotes with anything over .270”. Is that right? If so I’d be looking below that for the added versatility. I like to eat deer. I don’t like other things that also like to eat deer, selfish and hypocritical, I know. So I shoot coyotes. That leaves you with a lot of cartridges, the popular (available ammunition!) ones would be 270 win, 6.5 creedmoor, 243 win. 270 win and 6.5 creedmoor, probably even 243 Win will also take game larger than deer. My dad has taken 2 elk with 243. Effectively taking game isn’t about energy, it’s about using a properly constructed bullet hitting the target within its operating velocity window. Nothing will live long with holes in its lungs / heart. 270 will have the most recoil of those 3, followed by 6.5 creedmoor, followed by 243.

Action comes down to personal preference. I have both, I like both for different reasons. I think you could get a very nice bolt action setup for your $1300 all in budget. Make sure you handle a few different brands and see which feels best to you. Used is a good way to save some $, lots of good used guns out there looking for a new home. Flip side is there are also “xyz gun wouldn't shoot worth a darn so I sold it” comments out there, it sucks that people do that. A used BLR might squeeze into your budget, but I don’t like brownings twist rate for 243, and I don’t like long action (sorry 270). You can get the BLR in 6.5 creedmoor, but they’re so new I don’t think you’d find a used one for sale.

Happy hunting, let us know what you go with.
 
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