People being careless and prone to mistakes, there is opportunity for accidental discharge during unloading of the 94 Winchesters. I have personally heard of 3 incidents in which someone touched off the trigger while levering out ammo. Should it happen, no. Should it result in injury if safe muzzle direction is abided by, no. But don't kid yourselves, it does happen. Me, I like a bolt action rifle with a detachable mag. I hate guns that I have to stand out in the snow and work the action to empty. Inevitably, ammo winds up on the ground.
Lever actions as hunting guns
- Thread starter duke1
- Start date
I would stop hunting if i had to conform to regimented safey system. bad enough when you joey do-gooder play range officer at a range.
muzzle control = never a hunting accident. PERIOD. firearm design is irrelevent.
- Location
- Winnipeg,Man.
I have hunted for years with my M94 and I only put one in the tube and one in the chamber. No chance of accidental missfire and also after the initial shot...the prey is gone anyways (usually down)...not many chances of a second or third shot.
I empty my Marlin 1895 GS by dumping the unchambered rounds through the ejection port. I thought everybody did it this way.
I O-ringed my cross-bolt safety and depend on ACTS to keep my "horribly unsafe" lever action death machine under control.
I O-ringed my cross-bolt safety and depend on ACTS to keep my "horribly unsafe" lever action death machine under control.
Lever Rifles Are Great !!!!!
...... What a load of B.S !!! ..... The Winchester, Marlin and their ilk are GREAT hunting rifles ! Pointed bullets not a good idea, but considering they are, basically close range, brush popping rifles, this is no handicap! The lever can be worked quietly, and if one just needs to "####" the hammer, it can be eased very, very quietly ! Unloading is a pain compared to a magazine fed rifle, but with no safety to worry about forgetting to take off, light weight and natural point-ability, is it any wonder that the lever guns, and their quick follow up shots ( not that anyone here needs them! ) have been the epitome of Deer Rifles for over a hundred years ! ....Although I don't hunt anymore, and that's another story, I've taken deer, bear and moose , plus a few rabbits with a 30-30 and wouldn't hesitate to take one into the field once more !!! .... The rules of safe handling apply to all guns, particularly muzzle control !!! ..... David K. ...
...... What a load of B.S !!! ..... The Winchester, Marlin and their ilk are GREAT hunting rifles ! Pointed bullets not a good idea, but considering they are, basically close range, brush popping rifles, this is no handicap! The lever can be worked quietly, and if one just needs to "####" the hammer, it can be eased very, very quietly ! Unloading is a pain compared to a magazine fed rifle, but with no safety to worry about forgetting to take off, light weight and natural point-ability, is it any wonder that the lever guns, and their quick follow up shots ( not that anyone here needs them! ) have been the epitome of Deer Rifles for over a hundred years ! ....Although I don't hunt anymore, and that's another story, I've taken deer, bear and moose , plus a few rabbits with a 30-30 and wouldn't hesitate to take one into the field once more !!! .... The rules of safe handling apply to all guns, particularly muzzle control !!! ..... David K. ...
I'm sure the instructor referred to lever not to a win94 in particular, but anyways. I had a Marlin 44 and a Winchester 30-30 for years. With a Marlin your system won't work. With a Winchester maybe but it is a procedure you should not even mention considering that unexperienced shooters may read this. Obviously you lost your winchester handbook, so I took mine out and made a copy for you to familiarize yourself with the right procedure.
You will notice that the whole procedure is very different from what is most of the time performed in the field and what you recommend. That is the reason why accidents happen. But this is the recommended way to do it! Muzzle up!! Cycling! Nothing else! If the extractor fails a cartridge stays chambered anyways and you won't see it. Don't forget to drop the hammer by pointing straight up! Good luck!
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/martingunnutz/win94-3.jpg
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What I liked about the model 94 was that it was light, ambidextrous, and easy to perform a follow up shot. I was especially surprised at the accuracy of the 30-30 cartridge in the gun. The only reason I got rid of it was because a significant number of shots in the area in which I hunt are at distances not well suited to the ballistics of 30-30. I certainly wouldn't tell someone not to get one because of safety concerns, only to be extra cautious of the procedure of unloading it.
If the levergun is dangerous to unload, then about the bolt action with a blind magazine? The barrel is supposed to be pointed at the ground and away from someone else's and YOUR feet. The statement that lever guns are dangerous is absolutely false. The people mishandling firearms are.
Amphibious makes a good point too, a gun is either loaded or not, safeties are not to be relied upon....ever.
Amphibious makes a good point too, a gun is either loaded or not, safeties are not to be relied upon....ever.
When I did my gun course we were told the same thing. The instructor was reffering to the issues with the safety mechanism (only an idiot cannot properly opperate that thing) and the issues surrounding spitzer type ammunition used in those specific firearms.
As for the hammer type safety on those levers, I think they are more safe than a convential safety. You load your gun, lower the hammer (to the middle position) and walk through the forest safe as can be. You see a deer, you #### the hammer and bo-yah the deer is down and everyone is happy and most importantly safe.
As for the tubular magazine, sure there were issues once but man that was along time ago. The spitzer type ammunition that caused the safety problems is not even available unless you reload. When was the last time you bought a box of pointed 30-30's or 32 specials (besides the Horady Leverevolution)?
The guns are not only safe but have probably killed more deer than any other firearm on the planet.
Great gun, safe gun.
As for the hammer type safety on those levers, I think they are more safe than a convential safety. You load your gun, lower the hammer (to the middle position) and walk through the forest safe as can be. You see a deer, you #### the hammer and bo-yah the deer is down and everyone is happy and most importantly safe.
As for the tubular magazine, sure there were issues once but man that was along time ago. The spitzer type ammunition that caused the safety problems is not even available unless you reload. When was the last time you bought a box of pointed 30-30's or 32 specials (besides the Horady Leverevolution)?
The guns are not only safe but have probably killed more deer than any other firearm on the planet.
Great gun, safe gun.
gonecountry
CGN Regular
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I'm pretty sure geologist just said it would work, and it definatly works on the Winny. I do it that way.
No one ever told me to do it, just one day I realized, hey it would be a little safer (cause things do happen) if I didnt close up the lever on a live cartridge 6 times in a row before I go into the house. Even if it is pointed in a safe direction.
I recently heard of a guy who lost the back window out of his truck as he unloaded his bolt action into an open guncase on the tailgate. I guess he thought that was a safe direction. ( Just not for the truck! LOL) From what I heard he was racking them into and back out of the chamber every time.
Absolutely right, but people make stupid things due to wrong judgement. A plane is safe per se, they drop anyways. A fail proof system can help to survive under stress. Hunting is for many people stressful (positive though) and exciting.
I still believe that a lever bears a higher risk for accidental discharge than a bolt action like a revolver is easier to handle than a semi! My 2cents!
Hi Gonecountry! I expect another gorgeous sunset in Nova Scotia!
Oh yeah, the army told me to poke my little sticky finger into chamber. There is also no need to close the action completely to remove a round. Lets hit a nice deer not the truck or fellow hunter!
Oh yeah, the army told me to poke my little sticky finger into chamber. There is also no need to close the action completely to remove a round. Lets hit a nice deer not the truck or fellow hunter!
gonecountry
CGN Regular
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Yea its looking nice here too! and hey it wasn't my back window!
Was that sticky finger or stinky. LOL Sorry just had to ask
Was that sticky finger or stinky. LOL Sorry just had to ask
I've hunted with a couple of guys who chamber a round and then activate the safety device, and then hike out. As I was to walk along side of them, I asked that they disarm the rifle. One complied readily, the other did not and told me that he did not want to have to chamber a round should an instant opportunity be presented. I never hunted with that man again. I hunt for pleasure and the bonus of putting fine meat on the table. It's just not worth the risk of wounding or taking another person's life. There is always tomorrow or next hunting season. "#### happens" just isn't an excuse for improper frirearm safety. I hunt with lever guns and bolt guns, my hunting partner never has to worry about accidental discharge on my part, and I expect the same from those that I hunt with...no matter their choice of rifle.
It sounds to me like that instructor was a bolt dork - trying to demonize anything but his beloved bolt action. Bolts were adopted by military organizations in the past because they were extremely simple to operate even for a conscriptee who knew nothing about guns. They were designed to be used by the incompetent.
Any modern rifle is only as safe as its operator.
Any modern rifle is only as safe as its operator.
1) Cocking the gun to unload it DOES NOT MATTER. You should not be pointing it at anything you would cry about if the gun went off. Lots of other guns need to be cocked and safety off to unload. EVERY Remington 700 made before 1984 comes to mind, as do early Ruger M77MkII models before the changed the bolt face for CRF...
2) Explosions in the mag tube with normal ammo are virtually impossible. When the US ARMY tested the Hotchkiss carbine with tube fed mag just after the civil way, they did over a yeah of extensive testing trying to get a cartridge to go off from a bullet setting off a primer. They finally succeeded by driving a nail through a bullet so a hard steel point was protruding from the front of the bullet and resting on the primer in front of it. They put this round in the bottom of a Springfield musket barrel and the filled the barrel with rounds - the barrel is 4ft long. They then used a machine to repeatedly drop the barrel onto a hard surface from about 2 ft in the air. After a few dozen cycles, the second round in the gun FINALLY went off. All that happened was the remaining rounds were shot out the barrel.
2) Explosions in the mag tube with normal ammo are virtually impossible. When the US ARMY tested the Hotchkiss carbine with tube fed mag just after the civil way, they did over a yeah of extensive testing trying to get a cartridge to go off from a bullet setting off a primer. They finally succeeded by driving a nail through a bullet so a hard steel point was protruding from the front of the bullet and resting on the primer in front of it. They put this round in the bottom of a Springfield musket barrel and the filled the barrel with rounds - the barrel is 4ft long. They then used a machine to repeatedly drop the barrel onto a hard surface from about 2 ft in the air. After a few dozen cycles, the second round in the gun FINALLY went off. All that happened was the remaining rounds were shot out the barrel.
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
There were over 7 MILLION Winchester 94's sold over a period of over 100 years. This instructor is smoking CRACK.
Mine's a 1962 in 30-30 Winchester.
Mine's a 1962 in 30-30 Winchester.
ipscgraz
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
OK...rules are put into place when common sense is not being followed. If you are going to cycle 1 or 2 or 6 or 10 rounds through your rifle to unload it while you are pointing it at your son, then MAYBE YOUR COMMON SENSE IS LOW ENOUGH THAT YOU NEED HARD AND FAST RULES
FWIW ipsc has rules against improper muzzle direction, and against finger on the trigger unless engaging targets, and rules against unsafe firearms. That about covers it.
BTW I have barked at people at the range...when they do something stupid/dangerous. If common sense is happening I don't need to get involved.
