..............I don't think it has anything to do with that the action is better or more reliable, its due to caliber limitations i would think. In a Guidegun config you are limited to .45-70, 450, .444 or that .458 Wild West caliber. In a bolt gun there is tons of variety.
Lever vs bolt for fast follow up shots
- Thread starter Steiner
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..............I don't think it has anything to do with that the action is better or more reliable, its due to caliber limitations i would think. In a Guidegun config you are limited to .45-70, 450, .444 or that .458 Wild West caliber. In a bolt gun there is tons of variety.
If it was a gun that was absolutley used for bear defense and nothing else, i would think a pump would be the way to go during all possible scenarios. If you end up on your back, a lever isn't the easiest action to chamber a round. The pump/slide would be a lot easier. a 14" 870 just seems very handy and bullet proof. I have been disappointed too many times with Winchester Defenders reliablity to ever own one of those again.
But if you are a guide and backing up a client, whatever you shoot proficiently would suffice.
But if you are a guide and backing up a client, whatever you shoot proficiently would suffice.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
PH guides use bolt actions because as far as I know, there is no lever that will contain a 375H&H, 416Rigby, 458Win mag/
lott or some other dangerous game stopping monster shell. If they had the option, I think they would all rather use a double.
My booboo repellant is a Win 94 Trapper in hot rodded 45LC stuffed with 325gr Hard case FN slugs. Fast to operate, easy to get into operation, packs a pretty good punch with amazing penetration. Recoil is manageable so that you can get a few rds off accurately if needed. Open sights with fibre optics inserts.
I don't think I will need/have time to take careful aim if booboo is that close. Hammer back, front sight on center of angry fur and fly at it.
Like many, that first shot better count because that is likely the only shot you will get.
Which is more likely to be in your hand as opposed to slung on your shoulder - a 16" 5.5lbs lever or a 22" 9lbs bolt rifle?
Jerry
lott or some other dangerous game stopping monster shell. If they had the option, I think they would all rather use a double.
My booboo repellant is a Win 94 Trapper in hot rodded 45LC stuffed with 325gr Hard case FN slugs. Fast to operate, easy to get into operation, packs a pretty good punch with amazing penetration. Recoil is manageable so that you can get a few rds off accurately if needed. Open sights with fibre optics inserts.
I don't think I will need/have time to take careful aim if booboo is that close. Hammer back, front sight on center of angry fur and fly at it.
Like many, that first shot better count because that is likely the only shot you will get.
Which is more likely to be in your hand as opposed to slung on your shoulder - a 16" 5.5lbs lever or a 22" 9lbs bolt rifle?
Jerry
I've posted the bulk of this before, but given the choices you've presented, the lever action is the hands down winner.
I recall a study done and published in a US magazine in the early '70's comparing the elapsed time for 5 aimed shots from each of the four actions commonly used at that time.
All testing was done with shooters who were considered experts with the type of action used. Timing was done between the report of the first shot to the report of the 5th shot. The actions tested were Autoloader, Pump, Lever and Bolt. All shots were aimed at a target with misses being disqualified.
The average times were:
Auto: 5.4 seconds
Pump: 5.5 seconds
Lever: 5.6 seconds
Bolt: 11.0 seconds
Since the speed factor would really only apply to four shots in each instance (since the first shot took no time at all), I've come up with the following per shot average.
Auto: 1.35 seconds
Pump: 1.375 seconds
Lever: 1.4 seconds
Bolt: 2.75 seconds
An animal can cover a lot of ground in 1+ seconds.
I recall a study done and published in a US magazine in the early '70's comparing the elapsed time for 5 aimed shots from each of the four actions commonly used at that time.
All testing was done with shooters who were considered experts with the type of action used. Timing was done between the report of the first shot to the report of the 5th shot. The actions tested were Autoloader, Pump, Lever and Bolt. All shots were aimed at a target with misses being disqualified.
The average times were:
Auto: 5.4 seconds
Pump: 5.5 seconds
Lever: 5.6 seconds
Bolt: 11.0 seconds
Since the speed factor would really only apply to four shots in each instance (since the first shot took no time at all), I've come up with the following per shot average.
Auto: 1.35 seconds
Pump: 1.375 seconds
Lever: 1.4 seconds
Bolt: 2.75 seconds
An animal can cover a lot of ground in 1+ seconds.
ShortstrokerWin94 said:
The 1300 series shotguns are great, but prone to shortstroking. If your experience is with an 870, the winchester takes some time to master because the way the action opens on firing. Having put about 10,000 rounds through a 2200 (same as the 1300) and going to an 870 I had a hard time picking up the winchester again. after a few minutes, I was back in the saddle.
My choice would be my 14 inch 870, followed closely by my model 94 in 30-30.
Its a bunch lighter than my guide gun and as Mystic said, would likely be in my hands... I love carring that gun
I hunt with an 870 but my defender is what I carry for hikes. Can't imagine haveing any kind of problem with one. I can unload all 8 in very short order, plus the heat shield, side saddle and pistol grip are great for putting the fear of god into uninvited two legged visiters while camping. For straight bear defence, a short barrelled .458.
cariboo_kid said:John Y Cannuck ... "Guides choose guide guns because they are sucked in by lever gun hype."
Call me crazy, but something in that quote doesn't sound quite the same as what he actually said.
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I don't have the video,but I have seen it.As to the aimed shots,the target was very close and quite generous in size,so it didn't require a lot of precision.As to the gun and cartridge used,it was a gun chambered for cowboy action shooting,which uses very mild cartridges.The speed was impressive,but I wouldn't want to try and stop a charging bear with that gun and cartridges.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Hey Super, if you're going to quote me, at least get it right. 
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
The pounding that a full patch 45-70 handload can deliver evens the field quite a bit, but I still think that the lever gun would bury a bolt in brass, if it was loaded to similar power.
