Light Bullets in Fast-Twist 22s
- Thread starter South Pender
- Start date
"Optimum Accuracy" is achieved through a balance between velocity and spin rate.
So you need enough spin to stabilize the bullet at the intended velocity.
If your spin rate is too slow for the bullet, then you would not be able to achieve the speed required to achieve gyroscopic stability, and accuracy would suck.
If your spin rate is too fast, the accuracy tends to suffer as the bullet goes into a speed wobble of sorts.
In the case of a spin rate being too fast, you can always go with a faster burning powder an run at a lower velocity, then you could still get good accuracy with light bullets from a fast twist. Just reduce the velocity until they are accurate... and don't fly apart 1/2 way to the target.
I'm not sure why you might want to run light bullets from a fast twist in the first place as it's realy just an effort to castrate what might otherwise be a long range rifle.... but hey... to each his own I suppose.
People neuter their cats and dogs too.
Nobody ever uses light bullets for long range competition and there's a reason for that, but you can use heavy bullets up close.
Flat trajectory at close range is over rated.
Reducing the effects of wind deflection at long range tends to be under rated.
So even if you get decent accuracy at 100 yards, don't expect light bullets to shoot worth a darn at 300 yards or more.
So you need enough spin to stabilize the bullet at the intended velocity.
If your spin rate is too slow for the bullet, then you would not be able to achieve the speed required to achieve gyroscopic stability, and accuracy would suck.
If your spin rate is too fast, the accuracy tends to suffer as the bullet goes into a speed wobble of sorts.
In the case of a spin rate being too fast, you can always go with a faster burning powder an run at a lower velocity, then you could still get good accuracy with light bullets from a fast twist. Just reduce the velocity until they are accurate... and don't fly apart 1/2 way to the target.
I'm not sure why you might want to run light bullets from a fast twist in the first place as it's realy just an effort to castrate what might otherwise be a long range rifle.... but hey... to each his own I suppose.
People neuter their cats and dogs too.
Nobody ever uses light bullets for long range competition and there's a reason for that, but you can use heavy bullets up close.
Flat trajectory at close range is over rated.
Reducing the effects of wind deflection at long range tends to be under rated.
So even if you get decent accuracy at 100 yards, don't expect light bullets to shoot worth a darn at 300 yards or more.
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redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
I may have missed it, but did you say why? Do you have a huge pile of Z-Max to use up, or just thinking like me, up close why stress the barrel, brass etc.? One of the best groups fired from my 1 in 7 HBAR was with 40 gr V-Max that was so downloaded it sounded/felt like a 22 Magnum, so light I had to cycle the action, but they worked better than expected. That was just to satisfy my curiousity, and use up a part box of leftovers. As Maples57 stated low charges of faster powder will allow you to slow them down so they don't go POOF. You can also use H4895 for both heavies, and dramatically reduced loads (out of a 223 anyway).
My Ruger has a 1:8, i haven't found a load under 62 grains that shoots acceptably through it (some have been downright abysmal) , though i haven't tried the 53 grain V-max yet, which had done well for me in fast twist barrels in the past.
With 75 grain pills it runs 1/2 moa or better most days.
With 75 grain pills it runs 1/2 moa or better most days.
Mainly curiosity. I have a new triple deuce that came with what I've determined on my own to be a 1-10 twist Douglas barrel (which twist surprised me; I was expecting 1-12 or 1-14). My guess, after using the JBM Ballistics twist-stability calculator, is that I might do best with 55- and 60-grain bullets. However, I'm interested in whether I can shoot some of the really light .22-cal. bullets as well. My thinking was that, if you guys with 1-8 and 1-9 twist barrels are getting good results with the light bullets, I should be OK with them as well. And perhaps the lower velocities of the .222 Rem. will work to my advantage in this regard too with the really light bullets.
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Had excellent accuracy with 60 grain Nosler cannelured Ballistic Tips out of a Tikka T3 Lite .223 Rem. 1-8" twist so that's my coyote load. I purposely bought the fast twist to shoot 69-77 grain bullets long range. Also bought another Tikka T3 Varmint .223 Rem. HB in an MDT Tac21 chassis with a 1-8" twist to get more serious about long range targets. I'm a convert to heavier .224" bullets for about 15 years now.
Like it was stated here before, heavy and sleek bullets still hit up close. But light bullets don't have the legs to go the distance.
Like it was stated here before, heavy and sleek bullets still hit up close. But light bullets don't have the legs to go the distance.
For what it's worth, it seems that most early .222s came with a 1-14 twist (and some very early Sakos even had a 1-16 twist). Over the years, this seems to have changed to a more common 1-12 twist. I believe most recently built deuces, like my Cooper M21, have that twist. So the 1-10 twist in my new deuce really surprised me. It may be that the maker (Dakota) wanted to provide for heavier bullets than normally shot in .222s without screwing things up for the lighter bullets--a compromise of sorts. I doubt that many .222s these days will have the faster 1-8 or 1-9 twists found in so many .223s, as the prototypical .222 shooter is likely not interested in the long-range VLD bullets that shooters with the .223 and higher-case-capacity .22s are.
Yupp, most 222 are in the 12-14 twist range. Great for light weight varmint bullets (which is what they were sold for back in the day) not so good with heavier stuff (heavy for caliber is not a new idea but it's certainly taken off in recent years.)
Seems in most rifles your biggest problem with light bullets at high twists is the potential for them to blow up due to spinning so fast.
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55gr Nosler Varmageddon tipped shot .78moa 3 shot group @ 3600 fps from the 1:7 22cm
prarie_boy
CGN Regular
- Location
- Just across the bridge to nowhere
I have a semi custom rem 700 with 1-8” Krieger barrel. Fairly short throat .223 rem it will shoot 60 grain hornady vmax inside of 1/2” at 100m. Only issue is the throat is so short with a 69 SMK that to seat the bullet any where back from the lands the ogive of the bullet is below the case mouth. So I essentially have a neutered .223 and can’t take advantage of the heavy bullets but because it’s such a laser with the 60 grain vmax I have been reluctant to take it to the smith and have it throated for longer match bullets.
RJ
That's why they developed the Wylde chamber! Best all-around chambering for the .223/5.56. The 5.56 NATO chamber leade is almost too long unless you shoot 90gr Berger VLDs and you want them to touch the rifling.
I’ve shot almost all bullet weight in my 1-8#“ Tikka T3x and was extremely surprised to see that Winchester 40gr ammo shot almost as well as better than 0.5 MOA Federal match ammo (69gr SMK, 73gr Berger and 77gr SMK) !
My guess is that quality bullet with a tangent ogive will shot well from a good barrel.
(I’ve had similar experience with a 243 Win that would shot well 60gr Berger FB, and all Matchking bullet from 70gr to 95gr)
My guess is that quality bullet with a tangent ogive will shot well from a good barrel.
(I’ve had similar experience with a 243 Win that would shot well 60gr Berger FB, and all Matchking bullet from 70gr to 95gr)
prarie_boy
CGN Regular
- Location
- Just across the bridge to nowhere
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Why not just throat the current chamber a bit longer to suit?
Easy job for any gunsmith
Jerry
Easy job for any gunsmith
Jerry
^^^This^^^
Have it throated and enjoy shooting 80 gr bullets. The Wylde chamber was designed to shoot 69 gr bullets out of bolt guns, this was before Sierra started making 80 gr bullets which it also works well.
Have it throated and enjoy shooting 80 gr bullets. The Wylde chamber was designed to shoot 69 gr bullets out of bolt guns, this was before Sierra started making 80 gr bullets which it also works well.
